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Post by thehiddenicewolf on Nov 13, 2019 11:57:53 GMT -5
As much as I like them as a couple they’re too much of the “love at first sight” cliche so I wanna know how you’d write their romance.
For me personally I might give Silverstream a POV in F&I and possibly FOS so that we can get a bit of insight of her life in Riverclan as she’s kinda underdeveloped. I would also have her first have small interactions with Greypaw in ITW and maybe when they went to fetch Windclan, maybe the clans could each send two cats to find Windclan and Silverstream is one of the Riverclan cats that comes along. Her and Grey develop a cute friendship but Greystripe didn’t start developing feelings for her until she saved him.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Nov 13, 2019 12:56:24 GMT -5
What's funny is that I've had something very similar in mind. I'd also make it so that they're both alot less mature about the relationship as it goes on, and at least have the battle at the end of F&I be a serious reality check for both of them. Maybe they realize afterwards that they can't be loyal to both their Clans as well as to each other, and one moves to the other's Clan.
If it's Graystripe who moves and Silverstream lives in this scenario, then they'd stay until Graystripe gets exiled in TDP, taking their kits with them. Crookedstar would've been dead at this point, so Silverstream wouldn't have had any reason to stay in RiverClan unless you count her friendship with Mistyfoot.
And speaking of Crookedstar, I'd also have Silverstream realize that no, just because she's the Clan leader's daughter doesn't really grant her any sort of privilege.
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Post by thehiddenicewolf on Nov 13, 2019 12:58:18 GMT -5
What's funny is that I've had something very similar in mind. I'd also make it so that they're both alot less mature about the relationship as it goes on, and at least have the battle at the end of F&I be a serious reality check for both of them. Maybe they realize afterwards that they can't be loyal to both their Clans as well as to each other, and one moves to the other's Clan. If it's Graystripe who moves and Silverstream lives in this scenario, then they'd stay until Graystripe gets exiled in TDP, taking their kits with them. Crookedstar would've been dead at this point, so Silverstream wouldn't have had any reason to stay in RiverClan unless you count her friendship with Mistyfoot. And speaking of Crookedstar, I'd also have Silverstream realize that no, just because she's the Clan leader's daughter doesn't really grant her any sort of privilege. That’s very interesting and would give Silverstream some development
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Post by Card against Humanity on Nov 13, 2019 12:59:32 GMT -5
1. have silverstream save greystripe when they're both apprentices in into the wild, and have the relationship gradually develop over the course of the next two books
2. make greystripe less of an irresponsible jerk
3. make silverstream less of an entitled brat
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Post by Uмвяᴀ on Nov 13, 2019 17:41:58 GMT -5
Maybe make it so Graystripe doesn't spread disease to his entire clan.
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Post by Fernshiine on Nov 13, 2019 18:54:24 GMT -5
Silverstream would've lived a bit longer but would have been killed by Tigerstar for birthing half-Clan kits.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2019 19:10:16 GMT -5
Make Silverstream appear and say more than she does in the books, and see more of her relationship with Graystripe on-page. I didn't care for the ship because we barely saw them together and most of their meetings are just implied.
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Post by scint on Nov 15, 2019 13:58:15 GMT -5
Have the relationship never exist in the first place
But seriously, have them either meet earlier in the books like in book 1 instead of 2. It was way too unrealistic for me to care all that much, and unless it was shown on page and not implied, then you might as well just scrap it instead. I don't mind the idea of Graystripe having a forbidden relationship. I don't. But here, it wasn't done correctly and all people really seem to love it for is because of nostalgia. The only good thing that came out of their relationship if you asked me was Feathertail and Stormfur. But even then? They still could've been born to someone else, heck they still could've been Graystripe's kits but with someone else (and it doesn't even have to be outside of the Clan either)!
All in all, Silver x Gray could've been nice had they showed the development and started the friendship in Into the Wild. But canonically it's unnecessary and poorly written.
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Post by maggotpaw on Nov 15, 2019 18:51:49 GMT -5
I wouldn't? The entire point of the ship's existence was to show the impulsive, short-lived idea of 'love' two immature young people (cats) can experience and how it can negatively affect their other relationships.
...But maybe I'm the only person here who had friends in high school and now college date people they hardly knew. It's not 'love' at first sight but they sure do *think* it is. Graystripe's irresponsibility wasn't likeable, but it was realistic. I've always read it as him and Silverstream being more into the intense new feelings they were experiencing during their fling thing than actually 'loving' each other. Silverstream lacked genuine characterization because in all honesty, Graystripe probably hardly knew who she was. And then she died for plot angst.
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Post by morningflower on Nov 15, 2019 21:27:51 GMT -5
The thing I would change about Graysilver is Stormfur and Feathertail having such a 'He did no wrong' attitude about Graystripe.
Graystripe made several horrible impulsive decisions in TPB and I know Silverstream's death was supposed to be 'the punishment' but honestly I find killing of a girl to punish a boy a pretty gross idea of a punishment. Plus, he betrays his kits clan contsantly until he finally gets banished, but his children never even once think negatively about him for this, which I honestly find unrealistic, and he never really has to grapple with the fact his children are in a different Clan. It was just a wasted oppurtunity and I honestly dislike Graystripe just because the narrative loves him a bit too much.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2019 21:43:39 GMT -5
Have Firestar go along with Graystripe while he meets up with Silverstream, and have him (Firestar) fall in love with Mistyfoot.
Then, he and Graystripe both join RiverClan.
I think that would be interesting.
But in all seriousness though
Less drama between Firestar and Graystripe
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Nov 15, 2019 21:44:41 GMT -5
The thing I would change about Graysilver is Stormfur and Feathertail having such a 'He did no wrong' attitude about Graystripe. Graystripe made several horrible impulsive decisions in TPB and I know Silverstream's death was supposed to be 'the punishment' but honestly I find killing of a girl to punish a boy a pretty gross idea of a punishment. Plus, he betrays his kits clan contsantly until he finally gets banished, but his children never even once think negatively about him for this, which I honestly find unrealistic, and he never really has to grapple with the fact his children are in a different Clan. It was just a wasted oppurtunity and I honestly dislike Graystripe just because the narrative loves him a bit too much. This, too. It would've been great to see Graystripe actually having to face the reality of his actions. Yeah, he lost Silverstream, but that wasn't because she was from another Clan. The closest he's come to this would be with TigerClan, but under normal circumstances, I guess it would've been nice to see them meet in battle. We saw him avoid Silverstream's Clanmates in F&I, but now that their relationship is so well-known at this point... Maybe we'll see something like this in ASiR, but I'm not holding my breath, either. This also reminds me that that, besides in the first arc, Graystripe is never really condemned for his actions, especially by the narrative. Granted, I wouldn't say he was praised either and I'm not asking for him to regret meeting Silverstream or anything, but it would've been nice if he'd realized how much of a jerk he was to Fireheart for instance. I think the closest thing we've come to him having doubts would be when Fireheart told him that Tigerclaw was suspecting something and when Silverstream said she didn't care if no one knew who the father of her kits were. I guess I just would've liked it if at least Graystripe had been more mature about the relationship after F&I.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Nov 16, 2019 9:18:05 GMT -5
It's not really more so that's it's underdeveloped, it's more like we just don't really see it. Unlike the other arcs going down, the first arc is the only arc with one POV. If we had a POV for both Firestar and Graystripe, it probably would have been much easier. Even Ravenpaw could have had a POV too, at least until up to when he has to leave, it would have been interested to see his fears of Tigerclaw and Graystripe's relations with Silverstream, from their perspectives. But for the most part, this was one of the more known forbidden relationships where we were the outsiders, like Firestar, looking in. Because with other pairings like LionHeather, CrowLeaf, and DoveTiger, we had a main character with a POV.
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Post by morningflower on Nov 17, 2019 0:15:36 GMT -5
The thing I would change about Graysilver is Stormfur and Feathertail having such a 'He did no wrong' attitude about Graystripe. Graystripe made several horrible impulsive decisions in TPB and I know Silverstream's death was supposed to be 'the punishment' but honestly I find killing of a girl to punish a boy a pretty gross idea of a punishment. Plus, he betrays his kits clan contsantly until he finally gets banished, but his children never even once think negatively about him for this, which I honestly find unrealistic, and he never really has to grapple with the fact his children are in a different Clan. It was just a wasted oppurtunity and I honestly dislike Graystripe just because the narrative loves him a bit too much. This, too. It would've been great to see Graystripe actually having to face the reality of his actions. Yeah, he lost Silverstream, but that wasn't because she was from another Clan. The closest he's come to this would be with TigerClan, but under normal circumstances, I guess it would've been nice to see them meet in battle. We saw him avoid Silverstream's Clanmates in F&I, but now that their relationship is so well-known at this point... Maybe we'll see something like this in ASiR, but I'm not holding my breath, either. This also reminds me that that, besides in the first arc, Graystripe is never really condemned for his actions, especially by the narrative. Granted, I wouldn't say he was praised either and I'm not asking for him to regret meeting Silverstream or anything, but it would've been nice if he'd realized how much of a jerk he was to Fireheart for instance. I think the closest thing we've come to him having doubts would be when Fireheart told him that Tigerclaw was suspecting something and when Silverstream said she didn't care if no one knew who the father of her kits were. I guess I just would've liked it if at least Graystripe had been more mature about the relationship after F&I. It's a slightly different situation, but it reminds me so much of how Graystripe went basically completely unmentioned in the Millie-Briarlight-Blossomfall drama. Both of these scenarios would have been improved tremendously if the narrative wasn't so afraid of handing Graystripe any consequences or even acknowledged flaws.
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Post by Protractor on Nov 17, 2019 19:09:47 GMT -5
I'd rewrite it with one of those spy pens you find at book fairs at school then throw away the blacklight bc that is something I didn't want to happen.
Need a clearer picture?Here's one.It didn't happen.Silverstream yells at Graystripe and Graystripe never looks back.There we go,I just saved Stonefur xD
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2019 19:12:16 GMT -5
I'd rewrite it with one of those spy pens you find at book fairs at school then throw away the blacklight bc that is something I didn't want to happen. Need a clearer picture?Here's one.It didn't happen.Silverstream yells at Graystripe and Graystripe never looks back.There we go,I just saved Stonefur xD But you just erased the existence of Stormfur and Feathertail lol
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Post by Protractor on Nov 17, 2019 19:18:23 GMT -5
I'd rewrite it with one of those spy pens you find at book fairs at school then throw away the blacklight bc that is something I didn't want to happen. Need a clearer picture?Here's one.It didn't happen.Silverstream yells at Graystripe and Graystripe never looks back.There we go,I just saved Stonefur xD But you just erased the existence of Stormfur and Feathertail lol Did we need them though?One made Crowfeather that much worse of a cat,making him mate with Leafpool,making the Three,which according to Rock caused the DF to rise up.Bam!Saved us like 30 cats. The other caused the Mountain cats to fight back.Bam!Just gave us another clan bc they'd obviously go to the lake. XD
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2019 19:20:47 GMT -5
But you just erased the existence of Stormfur and Feathertail lol Did we need them though?One made Crowfeather that much worse of a cat,making him mate with Leafpool,making the Three,which according to Rock caused the DF to rise up.Bam!Saved us like 30 cats. The other caused the Mountain cats to fight back.Bam!Just gave us another clan bc they'd obviously go to the lake. XD That's a good point. I really liked Stormfur, but he just disappeared into the void called The Tribe.
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Post by Protractor on Nov 17, 2019 19:25:37 GMT -5
Did we need them though?One made Crowfeather that much worse of a cat,making him mate with Leafpool,making the Three,which according to Rock caused the DF to rise up.Bam!Saved us like 30 cats. The other caused the Mountain cats to fight back.Bam!Just gave us another clan bc they'd obviously go to the lake. XD That's a good point. I really liked Stormfur, but he just disappeared into the void called The Tribe. I low-key think Bramble is gonna adress him as another code breaker and storm up them mountains and kick Stonefur out of the mountains. No this isn't me wanting the Tribe to come in with Stoneteller's weird rock magic and throw a stone at Bramble and knock some sense into him
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Post by whiteflight on Nov 17, 2019 22:40:16 GMT -5
But you just erased the existence of Stormfur and Feathertail lol Did we need them though?One made Crowfeather that much worse of a cat,making him mate with Leafpool,making the Three,which according to Rock caused the DF to rise up.Bam!Saved us like 30 cats. The other caused the Mountain cats to fight back.Bam!Just gave us another clan bc they'd obviously go to the lake. XD But wouldn't the three still be born even if CrowxLeaf didn't happen? The prophecy only said that they needed to be a kin of Firestar, so even if CrowxLeaf didn't happen those 30 cats would still be dead. Dove was the only one who wasn't the child of CrowxLeaf, if CrowxLeaf never happened then Lion would have been born by SquirrlexBramble since they became mates at the end of TNP and Jay might probably be born with Dove since he's Gray like her the only one who wouldn't be born is Holly even if she's not one of the three.
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Post by Protractor on Nov 17, 2019 23:00:28 GMT -5
Did we need them though?One made Crowfeather that much worse of a cat,making him mate with Leafpool,making the Three,which according to Rock caused the DF to rise up.Bam!Saved us like 30 cats. The other caused the Mountain cats to fight back.Bam!Just gave us another clan bc they'd obviously go to the lake. XD But wouldn't the three still be born even if CrowxLeaf didn't happen? The prophecy only said that they needed to be a kin of Firestar, so even if CrowxLeaf didn't happen those 30 cats would still be dead. Dove was the only one who wasn't the child of CrowxLeaf, if CrowxLeaf never happened then Lion would have been born by SquirrlexBramble since they became mates at the end of TNP and Jay might probably be born with Dove since he's Gray like her the only one who wouldn't be born is Holly even if she's not one of the three. But what you must understand is this:Genetics and all logic are thrown out the window when it comes to warriors
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Post by scint on Nov 18, 2019 9:30:28 GMT -5
Did we need them though?One made Crowfeather that much worse of a cat,making him mate with Leafpool,making the Three,which according to Rock caused the DF to rise up.Bam!Saved us like 30 cats. The other caused the Mountain cats to fight back.Bam!Just gave us another clan bc they'd obviously go to the lake. XD But wouldn't the three still be born even if CrowxLeaf didn't happen? The prophecy only said that they needed to be a kin of Firestar, so even if CrowxLeaf didn't happen those 30 cats would still be dead. Dove was the only one who wasn't the child of CrowxLeaf, if CrowxLeaf never happened then Lion would have been born by SquirrlexBramble since they became mates at the end of TNP and Jay might probably be born with Dove since he's Gray like her the only one who wouldn't be born is Holly even if she's not one of the three. Exactly. Kate even confirmed it herself on this page of BlogClan, so it doesn't matter if Crow x Leaf happened to begin with. (It's a question about Moth Flight and the part about Leafpool's kits.)
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Post by whiteflight on Nov 18, 2019 11:14:48 GMT -5
But wouldn't the three still be born even if CrowxLeaf didn't happen? The prophecy only said that they needed to be a kin of Firestar, so even if CrowxLeaf didn't happen those 30 cats would still be dead. Dove was the only one who wasn't the child of CrowxLeaf, if CrowxLeaf never happened then Lion would have been born by SquirrlexBramble since they became mates at the end of TNP and Jay might probably be born with Dove since he's Gray like her the only one who wouldn't be born is Holly even if she's not one of the three. But what you must understand is this:Genetics and all logic are thrown out the window when it comes to warriors Yeah but still my point is that the three would still be born cause of the prophecy and those 30 cats would still die. The only cat who wouldn't be alive is Holly cause she's not part of the three.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Nov 18, 2019 23:21:27 GMT -5
The three would have been born regardless of their parents.
They chided Leafpool for her actions for a reason, she wasn't supposed to have the three, but because she was kin of Firestar, two out of three were destined ones. Meanwhile, the last one was born under Whitewing and Birchfall, Dovewing is proof enough that it's possible. Under normal circumstances, the three would have been born under Squirrel and Bramble. They lied to Squirelfight about being barren only after Leafpool was expecting the three, so she'd help Leafpool. Meaning prior there was no reason for her to not be able to give birth to the kits.
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Post by ᴄᴏɴɪ﹣ғᴇʀᴏᴜs on Nov 19, 2019 7:17:17 GMT -5
GraySilver may be one of my least favorite pairings, but I suppose I have to give it props for being the first one to set the bar for forbidden romances. The main problem for me wasn’t that it was love at first sight, it was that we didn’t see it develop. I mean, yeah, sure. You want to know what the girl who saved you is like. That’s normal and pretty relatable for one of the most underdeveloped relationships I’ve ever seen. But where’s all the talking? Where’s the where’s the communication? I think this mostly results from the book being in Fireheart’s POV, but still. The ship in itself was nothing more than a few cute scenes, a couple declarations of love, and then kits. This is... not good. To have children, you need to explain why these two characters are interested in each other, and not on external appearances. It has to be internal, selfless rather than selfish. For example, one of the better ways to get a relationship going is for one character to help another out of a hard situation, may that be mental or physical. What we get in GraySilver is... two cats who are betraying their clans for the selfish desire to be with one another. I just ranted rather than making changes, didn’t I? I think my changes would be: 1. Have Graystripe and Silverstream either meet as apprentices, or interact more times at the border with Fireheart in the same scene. 2. Have Fireheart talk to Graystripe about Silverstream so that we can actually see the relationship progress. (Another reason why GraySilver was so bad: Graystripe behaved like a complete jerk compared to the happy-go-lucky friend in the first book. A general conclusion I have made throughout the years of reading: if a character behaves differently because of their S.O, not a good ship.) 3. I honestly want to have GraySilver break up mutually and on good terms later on. At some point they have to admit that their relationship is selfish and it’s not doing much good when their clans are at war. 4. Also have Feathertail and Stormfur understand that what their father did was BAD. It’s never implied or stated that either offspring knew that what their father did was not so much of a great decision. I can’t help but think that they didn’t know - or at least Feathertail didn’t know - considering her actions in TNP. (Your mother died because of a forbidden relationship - why are you in one?)
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