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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2019 0:11:36 GMT -5
I wrote this on a different site, and I honestly don't feel like copying the pages and quotes into the code. So I'll just use the hyphens to make it a little easier to read them. Kay?
Be respectful, please.
My problem with Crowfeather's Trail is that the book blames too many things on Crowfeather. It feels like a fanservice book to me. I know Crowfeather is an unpopular character and many fans blamed Crowfeather's neglect for Breezepelt's behavior. While he may be partly the reason why Breezepelt became the way he did, Breezepelt chose his actions in the end. Crowfeather is not at fault for his son choosing the Dark Forest. And here's another thing: Breezepelt knew what he was doing in OotS. In Crowfeather's Trail, it seemed as if Breezepelt didn't understand what he was doing, and truly believed that he has been manipulated by the Dark Forest Warriors.
In Omen of the Stars, he was fully aware of their plans and he wanted revenge on Crowfeather:
- "I have told you that you must seek vengeance," Tigerstar reminded him. "With our help, you can take revenge on every cat who has betrayed you."
"And on every cat who stood by and did nothing while others claimed what was yours as their own."
"Starting with Crowfeather." Breezepelt snarled his father's name. - Fading Echoes, page 4
- Ivypool launched herself at him [Breezepelt]. Smashing into Breezepelt's flank, she sent him flying. "You can't fight for the Dark Forest!"
"Are you crazy?" Breezepelt struggled free and stared at her. "This is what we've been training for!"
"But you can't believe that this is right!"
- The Last Hope, page 291
Breezepelt also tried to kill one of the Three, clearly knowing what he was doing:
- "Breezepelt, no!" Ivypool snaked through the throng. "Don't do it! Please! Do you really want to destroy the Clans for Brokenstar's sake?"
Breezepelt pulled back Lionblaze's head and smacked it against the ground. Growling, Lionblaze tried to shake him off, but Breezepelt held on tighter.
"This has nothing to do with Brokenstar." His gaze flashed at Ivypool. "Lionblaze should have never been born. None of them should." He flicked his tail triumphantly toward Hollyleaf's body. "She's dead; now it's your turn, Lionblaze." - The Last Hope, pg 308
It's obvious that Breezepelt knew exactly what he was doing when he was trying to kill Lionblaze. But in Crowfeather's Trial, the book tried to make it seem like he didn't know what was going on:
- "I trained with the Dark Forest to become a stronger warrior," Breezepelt explained at last. "I needed some cat to believe in me, and the Dark Forest cats did - or at least they seemed to. But I wasn't fighting against the Clans. I'll always be a WindClan cat first. This battle with the stoats is my chance to prove myself." - Crowfeather's Trial, pg 365
I'm sorry, but I don't buy that bullcrap, and I'll always believe that he lied to Crowfeather when he said that he wasn't fighting against the Clans. Breezepelt tried to attack a WindClan cat from his own Clan during the Great Battle, attempted to kill the Three, and wanted Poppyfrost to die just to frame Jayfeather. And if you look back in the quote on Fading Echoes that I've posted, it's basically all about Breezepelt wanting revenge. Go find a pdf file of Fading Echoes; it's there, trust me.
The super edition made it seem like Breezepelt wasn't at fault for being manipulated and that's my problem with this. They make it seem like he's some victim of manipulation and that he didn't know what he was doing, when clearly, in Fading Echoes, he knew that they wanted revenge on the Clans and that he wanted to punish the Three. It was wrong, Breezepelt knew this, but he didn't care.
Breezepelt is completely OOC in Crowfeather's Trail. He was actually a favorite villain of mine until this book came out. I'm all for redemptions, especially since I like Hollyleaf and Skystar for this, but this isn't how you redeem a character. You can't redeem a character by putting the blame on one cat (Crowfeather) and making Breezepelt's story into a sob story just to make him look better. I know inconsistencies for Warriors is normal, but this one really bothers me, because Breezepelt feels like a completely different character in Cherith's super edition.
Now onto Nightcloud, which is my other problem, she also never recognized her own faults, either. Nightcloud still blamed Crowfeather for Breezepelt's behavior at the beginning of the book:
"Surely you've seen how the other warriors behave toward Breezepelt?" Nightcloud continued, slowing her pace so that they dropped behind the rest of the patrol. "You need to set an example for the others, and start being kinder to him. How is the rest of the Clan going to accept him again if even his own father treats him like rotten prey?" - Crowfeather's Trial, pg 48
Excuse me, but Breezepelt attempting to murder several cats is not Crowfeather's fault. If the Clan isn't going to accept Breezepelt for his crimes, you can't really blame anyone for not wanting to accept a murderer. Breezepelt went against the code, trained in the Dark Forest, attempted to murder a pregnant cat, a medicine cat, his own half brother, was happy that Hollyleaf died, and almost attacked his own Clamates. And you have the nerve to blame Crowfeather for Breezepelt's crimes? No. That is not fair to Crowfeather. He's a shitty father, I won't deny that; but you can't blame him for the Clan not accepting Breezepelt. That's Breezepelt's own fault, and he honestly deserves to be unaccepted, because he's done some really shitty and unforgivable things.
Nightcloud ran away because of Crowfeather. She didn't want to come back because of him. I know he treated her like shit, and I know they were in an abusive relationship; I won't deny that. Crowfeather is a terrible cat and behaved badly against Nightcloud and Breezepelt. But she needs to understand that she was shitty, too. Nightcloud used him for kits and even clawed him for god's sake. Remember that lovely scene when Nightcloud unsheathed her claws, sinking them into Crowfeather's fur because he was talking to Leafpool? She's also abusive:
- "Get away from her!" Nightcloud had crossed the ditch. She sank her claws into Crowfeather's pelt and dragged him away from Leafpool. - Night Whispers, pg. 203
I feel like a lot of fans forget this scene when she was aggressive. She literally unsheathes her claws and drags him away because she was jealous that Crowfeather was talking to Leafpool. Right in front of her son, who was wailing and trying to stop the argument. That is bad parenting. Nightcloud only cared about Crowfeather being with his ex at the time; she wasn't thinking about how her behavior would affect Breezepelt, and she had the nerve to blame Crowfeather.
While I agree that Crowfeather may be the start of the problems of this toxic family, it is not fair to blame him on everything. Nightcloud is a toxic little jealous shit for using her claws to get him away from his ex; Breezepelt attempted murder and didn't care until he was at everyone's mercy, while Crowfeather neglected his son. But at least Crowfeather recognized his faults and tried to better himself. He's a better cat now. Nightcloud still blamed Crowfeather for everything, while Breezepelt was barely punished, acted like the victim and the book made it look like he had some sob story to make him look better than Crowfeather. I really don't like Crowfeather's Trial. It's a fanservice book that I wish was not canon. But unfortunately I just have to accept that it is and deal with it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2019 0:18:29 GMT -5
This post is not directed at anyone and I was not angry as I posted this. So please do not take anything personally. It is my opinion, and I stand by my opinion. I made this topic because I was bored. It's not meant to be offensive to anyone or anything. Thank you.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Sept 20, 2019 1:17:05 GMT -5
This is exactly what brought the book down for me as well. I liked it well enough on its own, but when taking OotS into account, it's easily one of my least favorite SEs.
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Post by alphayamergo on Sept 20, 2019 1:46:29 GMT -5
Yeah, I think I would have struggled to consider Breezepelt redeemed no matter what, because of him trying to murder Poppyfrost, but the fact that he didn't own up to all of his crimes (including trying to murder Poppyfrost and attacking a WindClan warrior) and the fact that he kept deflecting his personal responsibility (they were manipulating me! My dad didn't believe in me!) makes his redemption a complete joke.
I feel really bad for Heathertail, who entered into a relationship with him under false pretenses - namely, that he had owned up to and made up for all of his crimes. She deserves better.
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Post by morningflower on Sept 20, 2019 3:50:25 GMT -5
Plus, Breezepelt showed no remorse for his actions before CT.
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Post by cappuccinokitty on Sept 20, 2019 4:01:51 GMT -5
it pisses me off how before CT, breezepelt was bad and trying to kill Lionblaze, then suddenly in CT he is a good boy who regrets his actions and is trying to redeem himself. Seriously? In OOtS he literally wanted to kill everyone, and then he just wakes us the next day and he’s a nice person? Wtf?
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Sept 20, 2019 7:55:53 GMT -5
Here's the thing. If not for Crowfeather being neglectful in the first place he wouldn't have turned to the DF for that approval he wanted from his father, instead. We literally have scenes where the DF were feeding into is mentality about what should be done, about getting revenge, and anything along those lines. And when he attacked Poppyfrost he wasn't alone, Brokenstar, arguably the leader of the DF, was with him and could easily have been influencing him.
When Breezepelt is said to not look remorseful, that was from Dovewing's point of view in DWS, at least to her, a TC cat that was part of the three, that's how it came off as.
Breezepelt's real goal from the start, and this has always been an occurring theme, was to get back at his father and get rid of his half-siblings. He believed they shouldn't even exist because they went against the code, and believed they were the reason why his father neglected him. He attacked Jay before, but failed, attacked Lionblaze twice, and still failed. But the problem here is that Crowfeather knew about the venom between the siblings and really didn't do anything to quell it as it built up. Even at one point watching them rip into each other over prey and not getting involved until Leafpool did.
Breezepelt didn't care about the DF battle, as long as it gave him the opportunity to get rid of the three, he didn't care. Hollyleaf, and lol at this, Hollyleaf did nothing to actually work toward redemption. She ran away and stayed in hiding and only came back because someone recognized her, and even then Brambleclaw lied for her. And just like how no one brought up Breezepelt trying to kill Poppyfrost and Jayfeather, no one brought up Hollyleaf attempting to kill her own mother, and the fact that when she killed Ashfur it wasn't out of self-defense, it was premeditated. But that seems to be slid under the rug because Hollyleaf shows "remorse" apparently.
It's not that Breezepelt is OOC, it's just that we're actually seeing him through his father's eyes for once, from a WindClan pov, something we've never seen before. Because every time we do it's always from another cats point of view outside the clan, especially from TC who never had the best opinion on him from the start. If you take out the family drama, Breezepelt was pretty much a normal warrior, just he had an attitude, but what child of Crowfeather didn't tbh.
Also, it feels like people think Breezepelt got away with everything Scott-free when he didn't. It's not his fault that Onestar is an idiot, sure, but it didn't change that his own clanmates hated him. And still do to a degree, some don't forgive him and even though he deserved to die. His own father thought the same thing. It doesn't matter what he did, Nightcloud at least still saw him as her son, and since no one else was going to defend him, she did. Doesn't mean she ignored what he did, but it does show morally she's not just going to disown her son like Dustpelt did Birchfall. Or turn on him like most of TC turned on the other trainees. Breezepelt faced persecution for his actions and even believed that the one cat that still loved him died, he was even accused of killing that said cat at one point. He was facing his biggest fears at the time because it was him being faced with persecution because of the family drama after the Hollyleaf incident, and his father's neglect, that led him down the path of the DF in the first place.
Crowfeather, nor Nightcloud, heck the rest of WC, don't know about other misdeeds that Breezepelt has done under the DF's influence. As far as they knew he was just one of the many trainees that fought in the final battle, and that he, in particular, attacked Lionblaze out of a personal vendetta against him. Nothing is stopping Poppyfrost or Jayfeather from reporting him, yet they didn't do it. Just like how Squirrelflight and Leafpool knew Hollyleaf was the one that killed Ashfur, but they never reported it either. Nightcloud isn't telling Crowfeather to forgive his son, she's telling him to act like a father for once, and if he did by accepting him, then the rest of the clan wouldn't be so hostile toward him anymore either.
Nightcloud wanting kits in a relationship with the equivalent of her own husband is not wrong. It's not like she forced him into an agreement and then made him have kits with her, it was his choice. I'm not sure why this argument keeps popping up when it's nonsensical. Also, the original passage for that is that literally Nightcloud feared she was getting too old to have kits, and it was Crowfeather that came to her with the offer of being mates. Nightcloud believed they could work things out and that she and Crowfeather could be in love, but he didn't return her feelings. And then she at least believed he would love their son, but he neglected him as well. So it's no wonder the relationship turned bitter when only Nightcloud was actually putting effort into it. But at the same time, are you really surprised by this? When he was in love with Feathertail, then moved onto Leafpool, and still hadn't moved on from her. And only took Nightcloud as a mate to make himself seem loyal, he didn't care about anything after.
Nightcloud dragging Crowfeather away from Leafpool honestly isn't even that biggest deal either. He's literally watching his two sons rip into one another, but doesn't move a muscle until Leafpool gets involved, which honestly just shows how bad his morals were at the time, but must have also stung Nightcloud, considering they're mates. I'm pretty sure any she-cat would have felt upset by their own husband having a moment with their ex during a time period of huge controversy in the first place. Keep in mind this is literally not even that long of a time gap from when Hollyleaf spilled the beans at the gathering. A couple of months won't change the fact that they're still the talk of the town.
Nightcloud is a helicopter parent because of Crowfeather's neglect toward Breezepelt in the first place. She had to work extra hard to show her son that he was loved growing up because his own father only saw both of them as of means to prove his loyalty. And never cared about them beyond that until later. Meanwhile Crowfeather, ironically in that same scene with Leafpool and the sons fighting, literally proved that he was still bitter about Leafpool choosing her clan over him. So honestly if you're going to go after Nightcloud for being jealous, I don't see why you wouldn't with Crowfeather who is also jealous. You don't have to be jealous of another character to be jealous either.
In fact, Crowfeather has literally done nothing redeeming himself as a character until CT, just like Breezepelt. I hardly call anything about him stopping one son from bashing in the other son's head redeeming, especially when he's just as much throwing the blame on other cats. It takes his sons trying to literally kill one another before he finally actually steps up and acts like an actual father. But then he turns around and goes back to acting like an asshat in CT anyways. Hmmm, strange.
Actually, I find it very strange that Crowfeather gets babied or given free passes despite the fact that 90% of things that happened, drama wise, could have been avoided if had just kept it in his pants. People try to lessen what he did, or make it seem like others are way more to fault. When the reality of it is, is that if he wasn't unloyal to his clan, a horrible mate, and a neglectful father, so much could have changed for the better. Quite literally. If he had remained loyal to his clan, the three would have been born under normal circumstances, under BrambleSquirrel, and his position in WindClan wouldn't have been threatened. He wouldn't have had to take a mate, and then use her and his kit to prove his loyalty. Nightcloud could have actually found a mate that loved her for her, and actually cared about her. And in the events of Breezepelt being born, or not, whoever her kits were, could have had a better chance of being raised properly, with not one but two parents that actually loved them. This is the problem with Crowfeather, heck Leafpool too, most of the drama that happens in POT and OotS stems all the way back to them, being their fault.
But whatever, it's in the past now. I personally don't hate Crowfeather tbh, I actually loved him as an apprentice, I just didn't expect him to turn out to be such a jerklord, not the biggest one in WindClan sure, but still a jerklord. He comes off as lazy to me in POT and OotS. Because he does nothing to change the situation of his families. He doesn't comfort his children from another clan, doesn't bury the hatchet with is ex, doesn't reassure his current family, he does nothing. He just watches from the sidelines and let the literally rip into one another. He was in a position where he could have done something, anything, but he didn't. And I highly doubt he was ever looking for his daughter when she ran off. I doubt he was trying to talk things out with Nightcloud. I doubt he was teaching his son to be a better person when he himself couldn't do that. He voided himself as any blame and responsibility, and pretty much did nothing for two arcs. He continued to deny the three were even his, threw Leafpool under the bus, and then shrugged it all off. This is why people are angry at Crowfeather most of the time. Because where as the other cats in this situation actively do the wrong and right things, and then do something about it later. Crowfeather did nothing then takes all the credit later.
The Erins never actively show him striving to be a better cat, a better mate, or a better father, until at least CT, two arcs later. Because prior, he was still the little shit that was in denial, selfish, neglectful, and bitter toward everyone else.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2019 23:36:36 GMT -5
Bumpers. Remember to be respectful!
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Rainbow
Pandean
Ferncloud Deserves Better
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Post by Pandean on Sept 21, 2019 0:56:07 GMT -5
Here's the thing. If not for Crowfeather being neglectful in the first place he wouldn't have turned to the DF for that approval he wanted from his father, instead. We literally have scenes where the DF were feeding into is mentality about what should be done, about getting revenge, and anything along those lines. And when he attacked Poppyfrost he wasn't alone, Brokenstar, arguably the leader of the DF, was with him and could easily have been influencing him.
When Breezepelt is said to not look remorseful, that was from Dovewing's point of view in DWS, at least to her, a TC cat that was part of the three, that's how it came off as.
Breezepelt's real goal from the start, and this has always been an occurring theme, was to get back at his father and get rid of his half-siblings. He believed they shouldn't even exist because they went against the code, and believed they were the reason why his father neglected him. He attacked Jay before, but failed, attacked Lionblaze twice, and still failed. But the problem here is that Crowfeather knew about the venom between the siblings and really didn't do anything to quell it as it built up. Even at one point watching them rip into each other over prey and not getting involved until Leafpool did.
Breezepelt didn't care about the DF battle, as long as it gave him the opportunity to get rid of the three, he didn't care. Hollyleaf, and lol at this, Hollyleaf did nothing to actually work toward redemption. She ran away and stayed in hiding and only came back because someone recognized her, and even then Brambleclaw lied for her. And just like how no one brought up Breezepelt trying to kill Poppyfrost and Jayfeather, no one brought up Hollyleaf attempting to kill her own mother, and the fact that when she killed Ashfur it wasn't out of self-defense, it was premeditated. But that seems to be slid under the rug because Hollyleaf shows "remorse" apparently.
It's not that Breezepelt is OOC, it's just that we're actually seeing him through his father's eyes for once, from a WindClan pov, something we've never seen before. Because every time we do it's always from another cats point of view outside the clan, especially from TC who never had the best opinion on him from the start. If you take out the family drama, Breezepelt was pretty much a normal warrior, just he had an attitude, but what child of Crowfeather didn't tbh.
Also, it feels like people think Breezepelt got away with everything Scott-free when he didn't. It's not his fault that Onestar is an idiot, sure, but it didn't change that his own clanmates hated him. And still do to a degree, some don't forgive him and even though he deserved to die. His own father thought the same thing. It doesn't matter what he did, Nightcloud at least still saw him as her son, and since no one else was going to defend him, she did. Doesn't mean she ignored what he did, but it does show morally she's not just going to disown her son like Dustpelt did Birchfall. Or turn on him like most of TC turned on the other trainees. Breezepelt face persecution fr his actions and even believed that the one cat that still loved him died, he was even accused of killing that said cat at one point. He was facing his biggest fears at the time because it was him being faced with persecution because of the family drama after the Hollyleaf incident, and his father's neglect, that led him down the path of the DF in the first place.
Crowfeather, nor Nightcloud, heck the rest of WC, don't know about other misdeeds that Breezepelt has done under the DF's influence. As far as they knew he was just one of the many trainees that fought in the final battle, and that he, in particular, attacked Lionblaze out of a personal vendetta against him. Nightcloud isn't telling Crowfeather to forgive his son, she's telling him to act like a father for once, and if he did by accepting him, then the rest of the clan wouldn't be so hostile toward him anymore either.
Nightcloud wanting kits in a relationship with the equivalent of her own husband is not wrong. It's not like she forced him into an agreement and then made him have kits with her, it was his choice. I'm not sure why this argument keeps popping up when it's nonsensical. Also, the original passage for that is that literally Nightcloud feared she was getting too old to have kits, and it was Crowfeather that came to her with the offer of being mates. Nightcloud believed they could work things out and that she and Crowfeather could be in love, but he didn't return her feelings. And then she at least believed he would love their son, but he neglected him as well. So it's no wonder the relationship turned bitter when only Nightcloud was actually putting effort into it. But at the same time, are you really surprised by this? When he was in love with Feathertail, then moved onto Leafpool, and still hadn't moved on from her. And only took Nightcloud as a mate to make himself seem loyal, he didn't care about anything after.
Nightcloud dragging Crowfeather away from Leafpool honestly isn't even that big deal either. He's literally watching his two sons rip into one another, but doesn't move a muscle until Leafpool gets involved, which honestly just shows how bad his morals were at the time, but must have also stung Nightcloud, considering they're mates. I'm pretty sure any she-cat would felt upset by their own husband having a moment with their ex during a time period of huge controversy in the first place. Keep in mind this is literally not even that long of a time gap from when Hollyleaf spilled the beans at the gathering. A couple of months won't change the fact that they're the talk of the town still.
Nightcloud is a helicopter parent because of Crowfeather's neglect toward Breezepelt in the first place. She had to work extra hard to show her son that he was loved growing up because his own father only saw both of them as of means to prove his loyalty. And never cared about them beyond that until later one. Meanwhile Crowfeather, ironically in that same scene with Leafpool and the sons fighting, literally proved that he was still bitter about Leafpool choosing her clan over him. So honestly if you're going to go after Nightcloud for being jealous, I don't see why you wouldn't with Crowfeather who is also jealous. You don't have to be jealous of another character to be jealous either.
In fact, Crowfeather has literally done nothing redeeming himself as a character until CT, just like Breezepelt. I hardly call anything about him stopping one son from bashing in the other son's head redeeming, especially when he's just as much throwing the blame on other cats. It takes his sons trying to literally kill one another before he finally actually steps up and acts like an actual father. But then he turns around and goes back to acting like an asshat in CT anyways. Hmmm, strange.
Actually, I find it very strange that Crowfeather gets babied or given free passes despite the fact that 90% of things that happened, drama wise, could have been avoided if had just kept it in his pants. People try to lessen what he did, or make it seem like others are way more to fault. When the reality of it is, is that if he wasn't unloyal to his clan, a horrible mate, and a neglectful father, so much could have changed for the better. Quite literally. If he had remained loyal to his clan, the three would have been born under normal circumstances, under BrambleSquirrel, and his position in WindClan wouldn't have been threatened. He wouldn't have had to take a mate, and then use her and his kit to prove his loyalty. Nightcloud could have actually found a mate that loved her for her, and actually cared about her. And in the events of Breezepelt being born, or not, whoever her kits were, could have had a better chance of being raised properly, with not one but two parents that actually loved them. This is the problem with Crowfeather, heck Leafpool too, most of the drama that happens in POT and OotS stems all the way back to them, being their fault.
But whatever, it's in the past now. I personally don't hate Crowfeather tbh, I actually loved him as an apprentice, I just didn't expect him to turn out to be such a jerklord, not the biggest one in WindClan sure, but still a jerklord. He comes off as lazy to me in POT and OotS. Because he does nothing to change the situation of his families. He doesn't comfort his children from another clan, doesn't bury the hatchet with is ex, doesn't reassure his current family, he does nothing. He just watches from the sidelines and let the literally rip into one another. He was in a position where he could have done something, anything, but he didn't. And I highly doubt he was ever looking for his daughter when she ran off. I doubt he was trying to talk things out with Nightcloud. I doubt he was teaching his son to be a better person when he himself couldn't do that. He voided himself as any blame and responsibility, and pretty much did nothing for two arcs. He continued to deny the three were even his, threw Leafpool under the bus, and then shrugged it all off. This is why people are angry at Crowfeather most of the time. Because where as the other cats in this situation actively do the wrong and right things, and then do something about it later. Crowfeather did nothing then takes all the credit later.
The Erins never actively show him striving to be a better cat, a better mate, or a better father, until at least CT, two arcs later. Because prior, he was still the little shit that was in denial, selfish, neglectful, and bitter toward everyone else. I agree with pretty much all of this.
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Post by cappuccinokitty on Sept 21, 2019 2:35:00 GMT -5
Here's the thing. If not for Crowfeather being neglectful in the first place he wouldn't have turned to the DF for that approval he wanted from his father, instead. We literally have scenes where the DF were feeding into is mentality about what should be done, about getting revenge, and anything along those lines. And when he attacked Poppyfrost he wasn't alone, Brokenstar, arguably the leader of the DF, was with him and could easily have been influencing him.
When Breezepelt is said to not look remorseful, that was from Dovewing's point of view in DWS, at least to her, a TC cat that was part of the three, that's how it came off as.
Breezepelt's real goal from the start, and this has always been an occurring theme, was to get back at his father and get rid of his half-siblings. He believed they shouldn't even exist because they went against the code, and believed they were the reason why his father neglected him. He attacked Jay before, but failed, attacked Lionblaze twice, and still failed. But the problem here is that Crowfeather knew about the venom between the siblings and really didn't do anything to quell it as it built up. Even at one point watching them rip into each other over prey and not getting involved until Leafpool did.
Breezepelt didn't care about the DF battle, as long as it gave him the opportunity to get rid of the three, he didn't care. Hollyleaf, and lol at this, Hollyleaf did nothing to actually work toward redemption. She ran away and stayed in hiding and only came back because someone recognized her, and even then Brambleclaw lied for her. And just like how no one brought up Breezepelt trying to kill Poppyfrost and Jayfeather, no one brought up Hollyleaf attempting to kill her own mother, and the fact that when she killed Ashfur it wasn't out of self-defense, it was premeditated. But that seems to be slid under the rug because Hollyleaf shows "remorse" apparently.
It's not that Breezepelt is OOC, it's just that we're actually seeing him through his father's eyes for once, from a WindClan pov, something we've never seen before. Because every time we do it's always from another cats point of view outside the clan, especially from TC who never had the best opinion on him from the start. If you take out the family drama, Breezepelt was pretty much a normal warrior, just he had an attitude, but what child of Crowfeather didn't tbh.
Also, it feels like people think Breezepelt got away with everything Scott-free when he didn't. It's not his fault that Onestar is an idiot, sure, but it didn't change that his own clanmates hated him. And still do to a degree, some don't forgive him and even though he deserved to die. His own father thought the same thing. It doesn't matter what he did, Nightcloud at least still saw him as her son, and since no one else was going to defend him, she did. Doesn't mean she ignored what he did, but it does show morally she's not just going to disown her son like Dustpelt did Birchfall. Or turn on him like most of TC turned on the other trainees. Breezepelt face persecution fr his actions and even believed that the one cat that still loved him died, he was even accused of killing that said cat at one point. He was facing his biggest fears at the time because it was him being faced with persecution because of the family drama after the Hollyleaf incident, and his father's neglect, that led him down the path of the DF in the first place.
Crowfeather, nor Nightcloud, heck the rest of WC, don't know about other misdeeds that Breezepelt has done under the DF's influence. As far as they knew he was just one of the many trainees that fought in the final battle, and that he, in particular, attacked Lionblaze out of a personal vendetta against him. Nightcloud isn't telling Crowfeather to forgive his son, she's telling him to act like a father for once, and if he did by accepting him, then the rest of the clan wouldn't be so hostile toward him anymore either.
Nightcloud wanting kits in a relationship with the equivalent of her own husband is not wrong. It's not like she forced him into an agreement and then made him have kits with her, it was his choice. I'm not sure why this argument keeps popping up when it's nonsensical. Also, the original passage for that is that literally Nightcloud feared she was getting too old to have kits, and it was Crowfeather that came to her with the offer of being mates. Nightcloud believed they could work things out and that she and Crowfeather could be in love, but he didn't return her feelings. And then she at least believed he would love their son, but he neglected him as well. So it's no wonder the relationship turned bitter when only Nightcloud was actually putting effort into it. But at the same time, are you really surprised by this? When he was in love with Feathertail, then moved onto Leafpool, and still hadn't moved on from her. And only took Nightcloud as a mate to make himself seem loyal, he didn't care about anything after.
Nightcloud dragging Crowfeather away from Leafpool honestly isn't even that big deal either. He's literally watching his two sons rip into one another, but doesn't move a muscle until Leafpool gets involved, which honestly just shows how bad his morals were at the time, but must have also stung Nightcloud, considering they're mates. I'm pretty sure any she-cat would felt upset by their own husband having a moment with their ex during a time period of huge controversy in the first place. Keep in mind this is literally not even that long of a time gap from when Hollyleaf spilled the beans at the gathering. A couple of months won't change the fact that they're the talk of the town still.
Nightcloud is a helicopter parent because of Crowfeather's neglect toward Breezepelt in the first place. She had to work extra hard to show her son that he was loved growing up because his own father only saw both of them as of means to prove his loyalty. And never cared about them beyond that until later one. Meanwhile Crowfeather, ironically in that same scene with Leafpool and the sons fighting, literally proved that he was still bitter about Leafpool choosing her clan over him. So honestly if you're going to go after Nightcloud for being jealous, I don't see why you wouldn't with Crowfeather who is also jealous. You don't have to be jealous of another character to be jealous either.
In fact, Crowfeather has literally done nothing redeeming himself as a character until CT, just like Breezepelt. I hardly call anything about him stopping one son from bashing in the other son's head redeeming, especially when he's just as much throwing the blame on other cats. It takes his sons trying to literally kill one another before he finally actually steps up and acts like an actual father. But then he turns around and goes back to acting like an asshat in CT anyways. Hmmm, strange.
Actually, I find it very strange that Crowfeather gets babied or given free passes despite the fact that 90% of things that happened, drama wise, could have been avoided if had just kept it in his pants. People try to lessen what he did, or make it seem like others are way more to fault. When the reality of it is, is that if he wasn't unloyal to his clan, a horrible mate, and a neglectful father, so much could have changed for the better. Quite literally. If he had remained loyal to his clan, the three would have been born under normal circumstances, under BrambleSquirrel, and his position in WindClan wouldn't have been threatened. He wouldn't have had to take a mate, and then use her and his kit to prove his loyalty. Nightcloud could have actually found a mate that loved her for her, and actually cared about her. And in the events of Breezepelt being born, or not, whoever her kits were, could have had a better chance of being raised properly, with not one but two parents that actually loved them. This is the problem with Crowfeather, heck Leafpool too, most of the drama that happens in POT and OotS stems all the way back to them, being their fault.
But whatever, it's in the past now. I personally don't hate Crowfeather tbh, I actually loved him as an apprentice, I just didn't expect him to turn out to be such a jerklord, not the biggest one in WindClan sure, but still a jerklord. He comes off as lazy to me in POT and OotS. Because he does nothing to change the situation of his families. He doesn't comfort his children from another clan, doesn't bury the hatchet with is ex, doesn't reassure his current family, he does nothing. He just watches from the sidelines and let the literally rip into one another. He was in a position where he could have done something, anything, but he didn't. And I highly doubt he was ever looking for his daughter when she ran off. I doubt he was trying to talk things out with Nightcloud. I doubt he was teaching his son to be a better person when he himself couldn't do that. He voided himself as any blame and responsibility, and pretty much did nothing for two arcs. He continued to deny the three were even his, threw Leafpool under the bus, and then shrugged it all off. This is why people are angry at Crowfeather most of the time. Because where as the other cats in this situation actively do the wrong and right things, and then do something about it later. Crowfeather did nothing then takes all the credit later.
The Erins never actively show him striving to be a better cat, a better mate, or a better father, until at least CT, two arcs later. Because prior, he was still the little shit that was in denial, selfish, neglectful, and bitter toward everyone else. I never really liked Nightcloud but that actually makes a lot of sense
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