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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2019 17:56:12 GMT -5
Honorable mention: Tigerheart. I don't like Tigerheart, and I don't agree with his actions in TRS, but fans give him way too much crap just because he's in a forbidden relationship. He broke the code? Look at Firestar and Bluestar. Both cats broke the code, and they turned into wonderful leaders. He's in a relationship with Dovewing? There's nothing wrong with him being happy with her. It's not selfish by any means. It just means he loves Dovewing for who she is, and personally I find that sweet of him. He's gentle, caring, and understanding when he's with her. He went after Dovewing? He was pressured by his mate, making him choose between ShadowClan and her, selfishly, and that was a hard choice for him to choose. He stayed with ShadowClan, letting her go off on her own? Well.. It's not exactly his fault that she made a dumb choice to go off while she's pregnant, and ShadowClan needed him. He's arrogant with Ivypool? Give me a break. She tried to kill his own brother in front of his own eyes. He has a good reason to hate her. The only times I understand the hatred for Tigerheart is when he treated SkyClan like shit, giving Leafstar a hard time to stay in the territories. But he's a good father, a good mate, and a good leader. Rowanstar said it himself: You need to give him a chance. Just because he broke the code doesn't mean he's an awful toxic piece of shit by any means. I wish I could like this 1000 times Like.. this is coming from someone who doesn't even like the guy, but the hatred for him is ridiculous. He's honestly a decently written character (before TRS existed, anyways) always meant well, loves Dovewing for who she is as a cat, and clearly loves his family and his Clan. And he never really even did anything stupid, apart from leaving his Clan for Dovewing. But he's chosen ShadowClan over her so many times before, it really shouldn't have been a surprise to both fans and Ivypool that he let her go. I'm just tired of the crap people give him. Anything he does, they'll always be mad at him. He's dumb, but not an asshole. But deep down he's a good guy at best, and doesn't mean any intentional harm.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2019 17:59:41 GMT -5
I wish I could like this 1000 times Like.. this is coming from someone who doesn't even like the guy, but the hatred for him is ridiculous. He's honestly a decently written character (before TRS existed, anyways) always meant well, loves Dovewing for who she is as a cat, and clearly loves his family and his Clan. And he never really even did anything stupid, apart from leaving his Clan for Dovewing. But he's chosen ShadowClan over her so many times before, it really shouldn't have been a surprise to both fans and Ivypool that he let her go. I'm just tired of the crap people give him. Anything he does, they'll always be mad at him. He's dumb, but not an asshole. But deep down he's a good guy at best, and doesn't mean any intentional harm. I agree completely. Except that I do like him, but I didn't like how he treated SkyClan, but that's the only time he's really irritated me. Speaking of Dovewing, I think Bumblestripe always gets way too much hate. The only thing he did wrong, was ask Dovewing if she was ready to try for kits again, at a bad time. Other than that, he's been a good friend, a fantastic brother, and when Dovewing came back to ThunderClan with three kits, he didn't try to burn them alive.
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Post by morningflower on Jun 14, 2019 18:09:52 GMT -5
and when Dovewing came back to ThunderClan with three kits, he didn't try to burn them alive. That's a bit of a low bar to walk over
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jun 14, 2019 18:12:07 GMT -5
Like.. this is coming from someone who doesn't even like the guy, but the hatred for him is ridiculous. He's honestly a decently written character (before TRS existed, anyways) always meant well, loves Dovewing for who she is as a cat, and clearly loves his family and his Clan. And he never really even did anything stupid, apart from leaving his Clan for Dovewing. But he's chosen ShadowClan over her so many times before, it really shouldn't have been a surprise to both fans and Ivypool that he let her go. I'm just tired of the crap people give him. Anything he does, they'll always be mad at him. He's dumb, but not an asshole. But deep down he's a good guy at best, and doesn't mean any intentional harm. I agree completely. Except that I do like him, but I didn't like how he treated SkyClan, but that's the only time he's really irritated me. Speaking of Dovewing, I think Bumblestripe always gets way too much hate. The only thing he did wrong, was ask Dovewing if she was ready to try for kits again, at a bad time. Other than that, he's been a good friend, a fantastic brother, and when Dovewing came back to ThunderClan with three kits, he didn't try to burn them alive. Bumblestripe didn't just ask at a bad time, though. Not only did he ask right after Purdy died, but he wasn't even listening to her when she explained why she didn't want to.
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Post by Protractor on Jun 14, 2019 18:14:14 GMT -5
Like.. this is coming from someone who doesn't even like the guy, but the hatred for him is ridiculous. He's honestly a decently written character (before TRS existed, anyways) always meant well, loves Dovewing for who she is as a cat, and clearly loves his family and his Clan. And he never really even did anything stupid, apart from leaving his Clan for Dovewing. But he's chosen ShadowClan over her so many times before, it really shouldn't have been a surprise to both fans and Ivypool that he let her go. I'm just tired of the crap people give him. Anything he does, they'll always be mad at him. He's dumb, but not an asshole. But deep down he's a good guy at best, and doesn't mean any intentional harm. burn them alive. Took the words from my mouth
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2019 18:16:09 GMT -5
I agree completely. Except that I do like him, but I didn't like how he treated SkyClan, but that's the only time he's really irritated me. Speaking of Dovewing, I think Bumblestripe always gets way too much hate. The only thing he did wrong, was ask Dovewing if she was ready to try for kits again, at a bad time. Other than that, he's been a good friend, a fantastic brother, and when Dovewing came back to ThunderClan with three kits, he didn't try to burn them alive. Bumblestripe didn't just ask at a bad time, though. Not only did he ask right after Purdy died, but he wasn't even listening to her when she explained why she didn't want to. Oh, I must have forgotten that part, I just remember him asking her, and then Tigerheart showing up
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2019 18:54:40 GMT -5
I agree completely. Except that I do like him, but I didn't like how he treated SkyClan, but that's the only time he's really irritated me. Speaking of Dovewing, I think Bumblestripe always gets way too much hate. The only thing he did wrong, was ask Dovewing if she was ready to try for kits again, at a bad time. Other than that, he's been a good friend, a fantastic brother, and when Dovewing came back to ThunderClan with three kits, he didn't try to burn them alive. Bumblestripe didn't just ask at a bad time, though. Not only did he ask right after Purdy died, but he wasn't even listening to her when she explained why she didn't want to. Exactly. Dovewing clearly told him no, even if she was snappy about it at least she opened her mouth. So I'm not sure why people say she didn't tell him anything. I understand before about the break up, she didn't explain why, but about the kits? She definitely told him to back off. Bumblestripe wasn't being respectful to her, and he was being downright gross. They've been apart for a long time at this point, and it's creepy he asked for her babies after so long and didn't even try to move on from her.
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nightfrost1211
I'm patiently awaiting the day when yet another anime consumes my entire being
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Post by nightfrost1211 on Jun 14, 2019 18:58:30 GMT -5
I'd say Dovewing, Ivypool, Twigbranch, Berrynose, Crowfeather, Tree, maybe Needletail
Dovewing--referring to the time period of A Vision of Shadows and The Broken Code--mainly broke the code out of true love for Tigerheart and her kits, and even though that romance was pretty tedious and hard to read sometimes, I know that everything she did was with good intentions. I respect her decision to stay in Shadowclan, and baring being away from her sister/kin with strength, plus she's a pretty good mother. She was stupid a lot of times, but I think it's justified.
Ivypool, for being a jealous apprentice without much of a reason to. I personally got annoyed by her when reading those moments, but she eventually grew out it and focused on her duties as a spy, so it generally didn't bother me much. I can completely understand why people think she's overrated, but she really does have some good traits to back it up.
Twigbranch, for clan-hopping. I didn't really like her fickle tendencies, but it was pretty important, so she could properly figure out where she belonged. Given the circumstances where she had families/adoptive families in a few clans, I could definitely understand why she couldn't decide where to stay at first. Twigbranch just needs to follow the rules from now on, and it'll be good lol
Berrynose, for being aggressive and kind of arrogant--referring to Power of Three, but kinda also Crowfeather's Trial. I think it can get sorta annoying when he doesn't know when to stop being mean, but overall, he's a loyal and brave warrior, so it shouldn't matter that bad. I don't think he is truly mean, but I'm also kinda swayed because I loved him as a kit lol
Crowfeather is basically the same topic as Berrynose, but also adding his bad-parenting skills with Breezepelt. He can be a bitter and mean cat, but a lot of it has to do with past pain, which we really get to see in Crowfeather's Trial. I don't think he should be completely forgiven for how he treated Breezepaw, but tbh there's many factors as to why his son became the way he is.
Tree--mainly referring to A Vision of Shadows--is a very interesting character in my opinion, but the writers made some small mistakes in how he was handled/what his purpose was. I know he can be pretty lazy and refuses to adapt to clan life, but I think it's somewhat understandable because all of his life prior was being a resourceful loner who made decisions whenever needed. Tree needs to get used to living with a lot of cats, and the rules and requirements than come with being Skyclan, and he'll become more tolerable. Also I just like his power and I think he's a pretty good father lol.
All of these cats are characters I don't even like much--except for Tree--but I can understand where they're coming from, and I realized they could be treated a bit too harsh sometimes.
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Post by Moonblazer on Jun 14, 2019 18:59:31 GMT -5
One thing that personally irks me sometimes is how critical alot of people were that Berrynose moved on from Honeyfern so quickly. I could understand the anger if he acted like Poppyfrost was some rebound, but it’s achingly clear how much he loves and cares for her and their family. He loved Honeyfern, but that doesn’t mean he’s incapable of loving Poppyfrost too. Some people take a very long time to move on, while others move on quickly and prefer not to mope or cry about something they cannot change. Berrynose chose to find happiness again and I guarantee you that Honeyfern would have wanted that for him.
Long story short, Berrynose moving on from Honeyfern quickly does not mean he never loved her. It means he found happiness again with a cat who loves him in return and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2019 19:03:05 GMT -5
One thing that personally irks me sometimes is how critical alot of people were that Berrynose moved on from Honeyfern so quickly. I could understand the anger if he acted like Poppyfrost was some rebound, but it’s achingly clear how much he loves and cares for her and their family. He loved Honeyfern, but that doesn’t mean he’s incapable of loving Poppyfrost too. Some people take a very long time to move on, while others move on quickly and prefer not to mope or cry about something they cannot change. Berrynose chose to find happiness again and I guarantee you that Honeyfern would have wanted that for him. Long story short, Berrynose moving on from Honeyfern quickly does not mean he never loved her. It means he found happiness again with a cat who loves him in return and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. I imagine that he and Poppyfrost confided in each other over their grief of Honeyfern, so it makes sense that they'd grow close during that time. I know Cinderheart was also Honeyfern's sister, but she was probably already interested in Lionblaze at that time.
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#FCCA57
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Name Colour, Custom Stars
Papillon
Forum Pest
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Post by Papillon on Jun 14, 2019 19:16:27 GMT -5
Tigerheart x Dovewing: I think it's one of the very few, if not only, forbidden relationship to actually work out and not end in dead kits, exile, a battle (Willowbreeze's parents), or just general misery between the two not being together and having to "choose their clan". You can't deny the genuine love the two cats have for each other and that's why I like the ship
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Post by Willowmoon on Jun 14, 2019 19:21:25 GMT -5
Rowanstar, Nightcloud, Crowfeather, Breezpelt, Tree, Onestar, young Tigerstar.
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Post by scint on Jun 14, 2019 20:28:55 GMT -5
Appledusk, Reedshine, Frecklewish, Ravenwing, Dovewing, Crowfeather, Twigbranch, Daisy, Berrynose, Tree, Tigerheart, Spottedleaf, Mille, Lionblaze, Rowanstar, and Clear Sky. May I ask why you think fans are too harsh on Spottedleaf? I don't feel like it's all of the fans, but I do feel like people are too harsh on her because 1) they think she's a mary sue (she really isn't in my opinion) or 2) they like Fire x Sand or something else than Fire x Spotted. Idk, I just feel like people are overly harsh on her simply because of the existence of Fire x Spotted. I know the hate has died down, but yeesh. I still see 'Spottedstalker' (or something similar) at some point on most conversations about her and it's honestly irked me. But that's just my opinion honestly. But I am biased, as I do like her as a character.
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Post by Moonblazer on Jun 14, 2019 20:31:47 GMT -5
May I ask why you think fans are too harsh on Spottedleaf? I don't feel like it's all of the fans, but I do feel like people are too harsh on her because 1) they think she's a mary sue (she really isn't in my opinion) or 2) they like Fire x Sand or something else than Fire x Spotted. Idk, I just feel like people are overly harsh on her simply because of the existence of Fire x Spotted. I know the hate has died down, but yeesh. I still see 'Spottedstalker' (or something similar) at some point on most conversations about her and it's honestly irked me. But that's just my opinion honestly. But I am biased, as I do like her as a character. Honestly I kind of agree. I actually liked Spottedleaf and still do.
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Post by Neekwanakwaki (Cloud) on Jun 15, 2019 11:06:40 GMT -5
Many cats broke the Code, but that doesn't mean all of them were horrible. Most of them don't even deserve the shitty hate the fandom gives them.
I'm neutral on Dovewing but damn, if she stayed in ThunderClan, her Clanmates would not let her kits forget about their heritage and may even bully them for it. She was right to leave and join ShadowClan where they'll be loved. But her actions in TS were petty and selfish.
As for Ivypool, she's a favorite character of mine and all, but she needs to understand that her sister is a grown cat and is able to do what she wants. Her choosing to ignore Dovewing when she needed her the most is what probably made her leave on that journey to Twolegplace in the beginning. She felt she wasn't able to tell Ivypool about the pregnancy and Ivypool's resentment didn't make it any better. Dovewing would want Ivypool to be happy, so why couldn't she do the same for her?
Other cats I think people are/were too harsh on are:
Daisy Ferncloud Reedshine Goosefeather Bluestar Twigbranch Violetshine Graystripe Millie Silverstream Jessy Crowfeather Feathertail Leafpool Alderheart Sparkpelt And Pinestar
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jun 15, 2019 11:21:54 GMT -5
The others I get, but why do you think people are too hard on Alderheart? I know there are people, like myself, find him boring, but I've yet to see anyone actually hate him for anything.
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Post by Brindlefern on Jun 15, 2019 11:29:59 GMT -5
To add mine to the mix.
Reedshine.
And I got a lot for this one because I know it's a doozy alone. Everyone says that she was a brat in the book but in reality… literally all she did to Mapleshade was tell her to “go away” for the issues she’s caused (Which... she has)?
That was.. LITERALLY IT? THAT was the oh so bad thing she did???
And plus, she’s Riverclan, Mapleshade was Thunderclan. Reedshine doesn’t really have to care about Mapleshade to begin with, she’s not required to care for this cat she doesn’t know. Yeah sure, maybe pity, but again, not required.
Mapleshade was the “other woman” who her man was seeing. Of FRICKING COURSE Reedshine was angry to meet her! Reedshine had just found out her mate was seeing another molly and had a whole back up family in a rival clan, of FRICKING COURSE she was a bit pissed! I’m pretty sure if I was in the same situation I wouldn’t be happy to meet the “other woman” in my relationship either!
There’s also the excuse that she was “rude and insensitive” but EVERYONE except for Nettlepaw and Myler was a jerk in MV. And again. Reed has absolutely no reason to care for Mapleshade, a cat she doesn’t even know, who was from a rival clan.
I can’t even really bring myself to dislike Reedshine after seeing her in the novella. It’s not like she full on sneered at Mapleshade when she got Appledusk for good by that point. If there’s anyone I dislike the least in the novella it’s probably her.
Like I thought she was WAY worse in the novella by how folks talked about her. They made her off as this absolute insensitive bitch… but she’s… not even that bad and it’s again the fandom making things worse than they actually are. It’s the fault of the PoV once again warping the reader into believing it’s as bad as the PoV sees it, but when I looked at it from a different PoV it’s not.
She’s like… the least offending out of all of them. I don’t get the hate, now that I know how she is in the books tbh (Which is very minor).
And if people are calling her a brat because of her last lines in the book or something? Well…
Her mate was fricking killed by “the other woman” who she ALMOST DIED TO HERSELF how the HELL did people expect she would act towards Mapleshade at that point like S E R I O U S L Y.
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Post by Neekwanakwaki (Cloud) on Jun 15, 2019 11:32:47 GMT -5
The others I get, but why do you think people are too hard on Alderheart? I know there are people, like myself, find him boring, but I've yet to see anyone actually hate him for anything. Because of the whole Alder×Velvet thing.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2019 11:56:53 GMT -5
Many cats broke the Code, but that doesn't mean all of them were horrible. Most of them don't even deserve the shitty hate the fandom gives them. I'm neutral on Dovewing but damn, if she stayed in ThunderClan, her Clanmates would not let her kits forget about their heritage and may even bully them for it. She was right to leave and join ShadowClan where they'll be loved. But her actions in TS were petty and selfish. As for Ivypool, she's a favorite character of mine and all, but she needs to understand that her sister is a grown cat and is able to do what she wants. Her choosing to ignore Dovewing when she needed her the most is what probably made her leave on that journey to Twolegplace in the beginning. She felt she wasn't able to tell Ivypool about the pregnancy and Ivypool's resentment didn't make it any better. Dovewing would want Ivypool to be happy, so why couldn't she do the same for her? Other cats I think people are/were too harsh on are: Daisy Ferncloud Reedshine Goosefeather Bluestar Twigbranch Violetshine Graystripe Millie Silverstream Jessy Crowfeather Feathertail Leafpool Alderheart Sparkpelt And Pinestar I appreciate the comment about Ivypool, especially since you like her. I keep telling people that Dovewing is a grown ass cat, perfectly capable of caring for herself and Ivypool was kind of an asshole about this situation. Cutting ties was hurtful for Dovewing, but everything's okay for her because it's Ivypool and she can do whatever she wants I guess. I've always felt that Ivypool cutting ties with her sister when she needed her the most, was the last straw for Dovewing. Losing her powers, the prophecy, and then her sister.. she really had nothing to lose when she left for ShadowClan. Kudos for Dovewing really, she deserves to be happy, and her sister needs to understand that she's perfectly okay taking care of herself and if she wants to break the code then she needs to let her. Ivypool was creating her own stress by worrying about her when she should've just let Dovewing live her own life. Both sisters handled it poorly, and neither were innocent, not even Ivypool. She was too harsh on her sister, while Dovewing was foolish about this.
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Post by Neekwanakwaki (Cloud) on Jun 15, 2019 12:01:03 GMT -5
Many cats broke the Code, but that doesn't mean all of them were horrible. Most of them don't even deserve the shitty hate the fandom gives them. I'm neutral on Dovewing but damn, if she stayed in ThunderClan, her Clanmates would not let her kits forget about their heritage and may even bully them for it. She was right to leave and join ShadowClan where they'll be loved. But her actions in TS were petty and selfish. As for Ivypool, she's a favorite character of mine and all, but she needs to understand that her sister is a grown cat and is able to do what she wants. Her choosing to ignore Dovewing when she needed her the most is what probably made her leave on that journey to Twolegplace in the beginning. She felt she wasn't able to tell Ivypool about the pregnancy and Ivypool's resentment didn't make it any better. Dovewing would want Ivypool to be happy, so why couldn't she do the same for her? Other cats I think people are/were too harsh on are: Daisy Ferncloud Reedshine Goosefeather Bluestar Twigbranch Violetshine Graystripe Millie Silverstream Jessy Crowfeather Feathertail Leafpool Alderheart Sparkpelt And Pinestar I appreciate the comment about Ivypool, especially since you like her. I keep telling people that Dovewing is a grown ass cat, perfectly capable of caring for herself and Ivypool was kind of an asshole about this situation. Cutting ties was hurtful for Dovewing, but everything's okay for her because it's Ivypool and she can do whatever she wants I guess. I've always felt that Ivypool cutting ties with her sister when she needed her the most, was the last straw for Dovewing. Losing her powers, the prophecy, and then her sister.. she really had nothing to lose when she left for ShadowClan. Kudos for Dovewing really, she deserves to be happy, and her sister needs to understand that she's perfectly okay taking care of herself and if she wants to break the code then she needs to let her. Ivypool was creating her own stress by worrying about her when she should've just let Dovewing live her own life. Both sisters handled it poorly, and neither were innocent, not even Ivypool. She was too harsh on her sister, while Dovewing was foolish about this. I agree completely. What I hope from now on is that they acknowledge their mistakes and make amends. Dovewing is starting to grow on me honestly. She's come a long way from the character she was before AVoS.
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
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ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Jun 15, 2019 12:04:04 GMT -5
Squirrelflight. People still claim she led Ashfur on when she didn't and still side with Bramblestar despite it being a reasonable thing that she did. For this matter, I won't debate.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2019 12:13:20 GMT -5
I appreciate the comment about Ivypool, especially since you like her. I keep telling people that Dovewing is a grown ass cat, perfectly capable of caring for herself and Ivypool was kind of an asshole about this situation. Cutting ties was hurtful for Dovewing, but everything's okay for her because it's Ivypool and she can do whatever she wants I guess. I've always felt that Ivypool cutting ties with her sister when she needed her the most, was the last straw for Dovewing. Losing her powers, the prophecy, and then her sister.. she really had nothing to lose when she left for ShadowClan. Kudos for Dovewing really, she deserves to be happy, and her sister needs to understand that she's perfectly okay taking care of herself and if she wants to break the code then she needs to let her. Ivypool was creating her own stress by worrying about her when she should've just let Dovewing live her own life. Both sisters handled it poorly, and neither were innocent, not even Ivypool. She was too harsh on her sister, while Dovewing was foolish about this. I agree completely. What I hope from now on is that they acknowledge their mistakes and make amends. Dovewing is starting to grow on me honestly. She's come a long way from the character she was before AVoS. I just hope they'll both be at peace with each other. It's ridiculous that their own problems lasted for so long, and it's honestly sad that Twigbranch and Violetshine were more mature than they were about this and both accepted each other's own happiness sooner than Ivypool did about her sister. Even though Twigbranch was a bit selfish about Violetshine being closer to her father she still accepted her sister's happiness. It just goes to show how better written these two are, and I feel like they're what Dovewing and Ivypool were supposed to be, if you get what I mean.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jun 15, 2019 12:30:39 GMT -5
Needletail: Yeah she was a rebel, and manipulative to Violetshine, I'll give you that, however, I feel like people also ignore how young she was herself, how she was also manipulated, and how what she dealt with prior leading to her mentality at the time. I feel like she gets all the blame for the events in ShadowClan when it's honestly just partly hers.
Alderheart: He had the personality of a paperbag but I think people are too harsh on him over the Velvet thing. It didn't go anywhere and ended in a much more mature fashion compared to more than half of the relationships in the series, period.
Ivypool: No matter what she does, people will still hate her. She matured from being a "brat"? Still gets hate. Made up with her sister? Still gets hate. Doesn't like the fact Dove constantly breaks the warrior code? Still gets hate. Called Tiger out for being a coward? Still gets hate. Actually being worried about her sister but chooses to remain loyal to her clan? Still gets hate. Heck, she was forced to do horrible things in the DF and had no control over, either it was her or them and she still gets hate. Just yikes. I mean it's not Ivy's fault that her sister took so long to mature (or never did) and she's doing stupid things because of it.
Nightcloud: Honestly, she wasn't even that bad of a character an I feel like she only really gets hate because of the Leaf/Crow pairing in general. Imo I was never a fan, and honestly, Night really didn't deserve the end she was fed. Also, there's literally nothing wrong with a spouse wanting to have children, or having a desire to be mates in general, etc. Seriously?
Scorchfur: He seems to get a lot of hate, when he's honestly not that bad of a cat. He cares about his family and has morals, but like the rest of ShadowClan, he was scared and trying to look for a solution, but in the wrong way. I like him for his personality, he has one at least, and I'm glad that not every cat was so hunky dory happy go lucky with the changes in SC either. I feel like people treat him like some monster when he's actually shown to feel guilt, fear, and upset toward certain conflicts.
Bumblestripe: Mostly over the Dovewing thing. The lack of communication between them, especially on Dove's end, honestly caused most of the issues. He liked her, he thought she liked him, she became his mate, there's nothing wrong with him wanting kits, and she honestly should have said otherwise (like Tiwgbranch) if that was the case. And actually be clear about it. I've seen him get a lot of smack, when these guy was just used as fodder, in the end, something he really didn't deserve. When he told Dove to think about it, there's really nothing wrong with that either, she could have considered it, then talked it over with him and turn him down again. Was that so hard? People make it seem like he was emotionally manipulating her like Finleap did to Twigbranch. (I guess this is why I'll always respect Twigbranch over Dovewing, because at least she knew how to put her paw down and still hold self-respect for her character.)
Leopardstar: She really really wasn't even that bad of a leader. Imo she made like one major mistake in her early times of being leader? And people kinda held that to her, despite her feeing guilty and making up for it ages ago. In comparison to Blackstar, imo I feel like she honestly was the better of the two.
Silverstream: She was a young, courageous and strong hearted character but people chalk that up to her being a "brat" and then dismiss everything she's done after. I feel like she's well rounded of a character, even on her on and apart from Graystripe, but she still gets hate just because of the Gray vs Fire beef, which really wasn't even her fault. I truly thought she had some good ideals, like how the warrior code needed changing, years later it turns out she was right. The Code really is flawed, it just sucks she wasn't alive when the fans realized this.
Dawnpelt: Over the Jayfeather thing, she mostly did that out of distraught over her brother's death. But other than that she turned out to be a good character, but people still remember her as that "horrible cat" that said crap about Jayfeather uwu.
Tree: He's a lofy guy with an actual personality and amazing character development, but I feel like he gets hate just for being Violetshine's mate and turning out to be the better of the two compared to Finleap, lol.
Mudclaw: He should have been leader, and honestly didn't deserve to be demoted off the basis of something so uncalled for and unnecessary to the plot. He's painted as a bad guy when he's not, and people still condemn him despite the fact the last time we see him he's still helping his clan from StarClan.
Daisy: Actually perma queens, in general, seem to get a lot of hate, but I think it's because she dared to ever have feelings for Cloudtail at some point, so she gets a lot of smack for it. Which is kinda ridiculous cause their relationship never went anywhere, and on top of that she wasn't even used to clan life yet.
Breezepelt: Was neglected and manipulated, did some bad things, redeemed himself, people still crap on him. Nothing he will ever do will ever please them, but that's fine I guess. Forgive not forget.
Spottedleaf: Don't care about her, but I feel like people made her out to be worse than she actually was. Nothing in the first series is really that polished, and no one ever calls out Firestar for being just as eager to see her in his dreams as she was. Honestly the fact that it went on so long and another cat had to open their mouth about it before he realized the problem was really dumb on his part. But seriously, their relationship wasn't even that bad, I didn't care for it, but again, feels like an exaggeration to call her "Stalkerleaf".
Leafpool: She seems to get a lot of the blame in the whole ordeal when imo it falls more on Crowfeather tbh. She redeemed herself and made her choice in the end, and she's honestly not that bad.
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Post by morningflower on Jun 15, 2019 16:59:00 GMT -5
Needletail. Criticising her is absolutely valid, but she was younger than people admit and was also not the sole cause of Violetkit's problems, lmao. People forget the reason Violetkit clung onto her so much in the first place was because she felt so completely alone in ShadowClan. Does that excuse some of Needletail's behaviour towards her? No, of course not, but Needletail did realise she wronged Violetpaw in many ways, and she eventually tried to do something one hundred percent selfless for Violetpaw. Yes, she's written inconsistently when she went to StarClan, but who in this series isn't?
Plus, people get mad at her for splitting up Violetkit and Twigkit, but not at Alderheart who essentially argued for the same thing. Personally, the situation could have been handled much better by the cats with actual authority at the time. There's a reason they don't trust apprentices with these kinds of things, lol. And I understand it if people don't see it this way, but her relationship with Rain always came off as him taking advantage of her relative naivete.
I don't mind if people are critical of her, but people saying they wished she went to the equivalent of hell is a bit much.
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