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Post by Showers on May 24, 2019 19:57:36 GMT -5
warn Ravenwing about Mapleshade's kits? Were they a threat to ThunderClan? Did StarClan not approve of Mapleshade's lie? Enough to put kits in danger? Do you think StarClan is at fault for creating one of the dark forest's biggest bad guys?
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Post by juvoyx on May 24, 2019 20:11:43 GMT -5
Because they had nothing better to do smh, idk
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Post by mymerlincat on May 24, 2019 20:13:37 GMT -5
Hard to say because they died before whatever potential danger they were came about
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Post by Brindlefern on May 24, 2019 21:33:28 GMT -5
Because Vicky needed a reason to kick Mapleshade out and went with making her Medicine Cat an ass to do it.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on May 24, 2019 21:47:38 GMT -5
u know what makes this worse? if u theorize the reason is "mapleshades kits were gonna grow up to be evil" then why didnt they kill tigerstar when he was a kit alongside the rest of his siblings? why are there evil cats at all if starclan apparently has the power to kill kits before they grow up evil. so THAT theory makes no sense as to why its implied starclan wanted ravenwing to kick the kits out.
so then what is it except for contrivence? there is no clear answer, so...everything mapleshade is built off of makes no sense.
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Post by Showers on May 24, 2019 21:57:50 GMT -5
Because Vicky needed a reason to kick Mapleshade out and went with making her Medicine Cat an ass to do it. Ravenwing did what he believed what was right, because he believes StarClan is always right(like most Clan cats). I don't blame him for telling Oakstar. I wonder it was worth it, though :|
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Post by Showers on May 24, 2019 22:02:44 GMT -5
u know what makes this worse? if u theorize the reason is "mapleshades kits were gonna grow up to be evil" then why didnt they kill tigerstar when he was a kit alongside the rest of his siblings? why are there evil cats at all if starclan apparently has the power to kill kits before they grow up evil. so THAT theory makes no sense as to why its implied starclan wanted ravenwing to kick the kits out. so then what is it except for contrivence? there is no clear answer, so...everything mapleshade is built off of makes no sense. StarClan warned Pinestar about Tigerkit and told him to kill him. Can you blame him for not wanting to kill him own kit, though. Yellowfang was warned but didn't listen until it was too late. They honestly should have just killed Mapleshade when she was a kit, then we wouldn't have her showing up everywhere and doing nothing.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on May 24, 2019 22:10:50 GMT -5
In-universe, they probably saw Mapleshade's way of deceit (claiming a dead warrior to be as the father) as disrespectful and wanted to make sure the Clan knew the truth. Maybe they also saw a potential future where the kits cost ThunderClan a battle or worse and wanted to prevent it.
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Post by morningflower on May 24, 2019 22:21:51 GMT -5
Perhaps they had faith that the living cats could resolve the issue without banishing the kittens, which I hope they would have seen as going too far in punishment.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on May 24, 2019 23:24:24 GMT -5
oh i see...it's still messed up anyways. they knew they can't just seperate a mother from her kits, so they just had to kick out those poor kits too...om
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Post by streamflower on May 25, 2019 0:00:09 GMT -5
Starclan have been shown to be idiots, and unclear idiots at best. For all we know, Starclan sent that omen to tell Ravenwing so that he could protect the kits from the accusations of the clan (that elder claimed the kits couldn't play right, Ravenwing could have just brushed it off while knowing the truth); we truly will never know.
I highly doubt Starclan sent Ravenwing that vision with the hopes that he'd tell Oakstar and thus get both Mapleshade and her kits exiled (and if they did intend that then they're even dumber than I realized).
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Post by Mistybreeze on May 25, 2019 1:54:20 GMT -5
I have long suspected that there was never any omen. Ravenwing could have easily figured out the truth on his own (literally says that in TUG) and made up the sign to trick Mapleshade into confessing.
Cops do it all the time, why not Ravenwing?
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2019 2:59:49 GMT -5
I have long suspected that there was never any omen. Ravenwing could have easily figured out the truth on his own (literally says that in TUG) and made up the sign to trick Mapleshade into confessing. Cops do it all the time, why not Ravenwing? Yes, he wanted to get the attention off the fact that he was breaking the code too, that he secretly had a mate and a kit or two, and that kit's name was....Rooktail!
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2019 5:13:23 GMT -5
I have long suspected that there was never any omen. Ravenwing could have easily figured out the truth on his own (literally says that in TUG) and made up the sign to trick Mapleshade into confessing. Cops do it all the time, why not Ravenwing? It's impossible for Ravenwing to lie about that omen: wcrpforums.com/thread/62230/mapleshades-victims-lying?page=1&scrollTo=2289191
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Post by streamflower on May 25, 2019 6:41:06 GMT -5
It’s entirely possible for any medicine cat to lie about any omen. It’s happened several times before with several medicine cats. If Rabbitfur hadn’t said anything Ravenwing may not have noticed anything off about the kits; furthermore as it’s not from his perspective (Ravenwing) we had no way of knowing whether or not the omen was real or made up. Redscar faked an omen, why can’t Ravenwing? Runningnose straight up lied about Nightpelts leader ceremony, why can’t Ravenwing lie about something important as well? Medicine cats are also wrong about omens and misunderstand them, for instance when Cinderpelt saw the tiger jumping through the fire and interpreted it as Squirrelflight and Bramblestar destroying the forest. Who’s to say that that Ravenwing, if he even did receive an omen, interpreted the full meaning and desire of starclan correctly? Medicine cats are wrong all the time, and many lie as well if they think they’re doing it for the right reason.
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Post by ~Absol~Wolf~Scribe~ on May 25, 2019 15:53:30 GMT -5
StarClan has done some sketchy stuff. In a lot of ways, pre-PoT and OotS they were a lot more vindictive like an Old Testament style deity. What they put Yellowfang through was pretty unfair, just for breaking a part of what isn't even the Warrior code (if I remember right). They really picked and chose who they punished and who they spared judgment... they were pretty inconsistent and certainly played favorites. Not a great combination, when some cats were smiled upon as saviors and others were put into anguish seemingly by chance of whether they liked you or not.
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Post by plaggy on May 25, 2019 16:34:00 GMT -5
starclan is mess up.
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Post by Leafshine on May 26, 2019 10:25:40 GMT -5
The omen was either misinterpretet, made-up or it was indeed correctly interpretet and it simply means that the kits don't belong in ThunderClan and should be raised in RiverClan. They were bad at pouncing, maybe they were more suited to become RiverClan warriors. If this is true than Ravenwing handled the situation horribly wrong and without any empathy. He was harsh to Mapleshade and knew exactly that Oakstar and Frecklewish would be shocked and outraged because they thought Birchface was the kits father. And he thought the kits will only cause danger to ThunderClan, but the omen didn't really sound dangerous or ominous. There might be some disputes if the kits find out the truth about their father, that he choosed Reedshine over Mapleshade. But i don't think they would become dangerous like Tigerstar or something. More like Hollyleaf or Mistyfoot going mad about finding out who their true parents are. Mapleshade was pressed by Frecklewish to say that Birchface was the kits father, it was risky, Birchface watched from StarClan for sure, but she had no other choice. I wonder if it would have made any difference at all if she had said the truth from the beginning, Appledusk would still be the murderer of Birchface and Flowerpaw in the eyes of ThunderClan. It was different with the prophecy about Tigerkit and Brokenkit. StarClan themself told them and made it more than clear that something bad was going to happen if they stay alive. StarClan just can't afford to send vague omens when it comes to a kits life, if a kit should live or die or cause danger. No half clan cat ever was evil, therefore i guess that Maples kits would have grown up normal and there was absolutely no indication that the kits had evil traits. I'm pretty sure they went to StarClan. Still the code was hurt by some ThunderClan cats who exiled the kits too hasty, probably lead by emotion, without thinking twice. Exiling means to leave the territory and it's dangerous for a queen with three kits on unknown land or other clan territories. They put them deliberately in danger, they could have guessed that Mapleshade would go to RiverClan and that it's dangerous for small kits to cross the river, they just shift the responsibility to another clan. Mapleshade should't have crossed the river with the kits so hastily, it was mainly her own fault tbh. It's disgusting how Mapleshade still had contact with Appledusk even after he probably killed Birchface and Flowerpaw, i dislike this ship and only feel sorry for the kits. Ravenwing is nothing better than Hawkheart imo. Darkstar didn't seem to be caring either, and Oakstar obvoiusly learned from his mistake, he allowed Squirrelwhisker and Windflight to live peacefully in ThunderClan.
Evidence that no half clan cat ever was evil or dangerous:
MapleshadeAppledusk
SquirrelwhiskerEaglestorm
ReedfeatherFallowtail
BluestarOakheart
GraystripeSilverstream
GorsetailBeechfur
current forbidden ship is DovewingTigerstar
Medicine cats with kits
Yellowfang Leafpool, unlike Yellowfang she also fell in love with a cat from another clan
Half-Clan cats
Patchkit Petalkit Larchkit Windflight Graypool Willowbreeze Mosskit Mistystar Stonefur Feathertail Stormfur Thistleheart Swallowtail Sedgewhisker Jayfeather Hollyleaf Lionblaze Lightleap Pouncestep Shadowpaw
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Post by streamflower on May 26, 2019 11:04:48 GMT -5
Ravenwing is nothing better than Hawkheart imo. PREACH
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Post by Needlefrost on May 26, 2019 20:36:17 GMT -5
Because starclan is silly.
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Rainbow
Pandean
Ferncloud Deserves Better
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Post by Pandean on May 27, 2019 2:23:25 GMT -5
The omen was either misinterpretet, made-up or it was indeed correctly interpretet and it simply means that the kits don't belong in ThunderClan and should be raised in RiverClan. They were bad at pouncing, maybe they were more suited to become RiverClan warriors. If this is true than Ravenwing handled the situation horribly wrong and without any empathy. He was harsh to Mapleshade and knew exactly that Oakstar and Frecklewish would be shocked and outraged because they thought Birchface was the kits father. And he thought the kits will only cause danger to ThunderClan, but the omen didn't really sound dangerous or ominous. There might be some disputes if the kits find out the truth about their father, that he choosed Reedshine over Mapleshade. But i don't think they would become dangerous like Tigerstar or something. More like Hollyleaf or Mistyfoot going mad about finding out who their true parents are. Mapleshade was pressed by Frecklewish to say that Birchface was the kits father, it was risky, Birchface watched from StarClan for sure, but she had no other choice. I wonder if it would have made any difference at all if she had said the truth from the beginning, Appledusk would still be the murderer of Birchface and Flowerpaw in the eyes of ThunderClan. It was different with the prophecy about Tigerkit and Brokenkit. StarClan themself told them and made it more than clear that something bad was going to happen if they stay alive. StarClan just can't afford to send vague omens when it comes to a kits life, if a kit should live or die or cause danger. No half clan cat ever was evil, therefore i guess that Maples kits would have grown up normal and there was absolutely no indication that the kits had evil traits. I'm pretty sure they went to StarClan. Still the code was hurt by some ThunderClan cats who exiled the kits too hasty, probably lead by emotion, without thinking twice. Exiling means to leave the territory and it's dangerous for a queen with three kits on unknown land or other clan territories. They put them deliberately in danger, they could have guessed that Mapleshade would go to RiverClan and that it's dangerous for small kits to cross the river, they just shift the responsibility to another clan. Mapleshade should't have crossed the river with the kits so hastily, it was mainly her own fault tbh. It's disgusting how Mapleshade still had contact with Appledusk even after he probably killed Birchface and Flowerpaw, i dislike this ship and only feel sorry for the kits. Ravenwing is nothing better than Hawkheart imo. Darkstar didn't seem to be caring either, and Oakstar obvoiusly learned from his mistake, he allowed Squirrelwhisker and Windflight to live peacefully in ThunderClan. Evidence that no half clan cat ever was evil or dangerous: MapleshadeAppledusk SquirrelwhiskerEaglestorm ReedfeatherFallowtail BluestarOakheart GraystripeSilverstream GorsetailBeechfur current forbidden ship is DovewingTigerstar Medicine cats with kits Yellowfang Leafpool, unlike Yellowfang she also fell in love with a cat from another clan Half-Clan cats Patchkit Petalkit Larchkit Windflight Graypool Willowbreeze Mosskit Mistystar Stonefur Feathertail Stormfur Thistleheart Swallowtail Sedgewhisker Jayfeather Hollyleaf Lionblaze Lightleap Pouncestep Shadowpaw I mean they were very young kittens. Of course they're gonna suck at pouncing.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 27, 2019 5:28:37 GMT -5
Mapleshade only became the way she did because:
1. Her clan kicked her out and her kits 2. Her kits died and her mate didn't even acknowledge their names 3. Her former mate cheated on her and abandoned her to save his own skin 4. She literally has hallucinations telling her to commit murder, yikes.
It wasn't the case of her going to be evil from the start, so hey let's just kill her as a kit. Nah. Shes basically a product of unfortunate events, who got the worse end of it all. So she's to the point where she has nothing else to lose and wants revenge against cats she believed did her wrong so her kits could rest in peace.
Also, it's been proven that StarClan can be just as naive as living cats, sometimes even they don't know where prophecies come from, that a living medicine cat can read too much into a supposed sign or read it wrong, and sometimes the sign may not even be an actual sign, etc.
There were so many alternatives to handling this entire situation, but in the end, the bias of the clan led to the death of the kits. If not for their bias against Appledusk, the kits wouldn't have been punished so severely as well.
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Post by Leafshine on May 27, 2019 7:58:53 GMT -5
Rabbitfur told Ravenwing the kits were heavy-footed as a badger and how they showed no signs of being able to stalk or pounce like Birchface. Ravenwing watched her kits swim in the river like fish and said they didnt take after Mapleshade either and that she tread as lightly as any ThunderClan warrior. Stalking and pouncing lightly are ThunderClan skills, the kits did not inherit that from their mother, but not every ThunderClan apprentice in the past was able to stalk and pounce as lightly and silent as a feather from the start, Flypaw for instance.
Crux of the matter is they seemed to be talented swimmers, natural RiverClan cats, Ravenwings suspicions came true when he saw the kits swim in the river and talk to Appledusk. Also when the clan thinks warriors like Birchface, the clan deputy, son of the leader, and Mapleshade, a respected ThunderClan warrior and probably next clan deputy are the kits parents, then i cant blame them to expect at least one of the kits to be talented like them.
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