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Post by Falconwing on Apr 5, 2019 15:35:07 GMT -5
Sweet I will add him in a little bit feel free to RP
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Post by Falconwing on Apr 5, 2019 23:40:54 GMT -5
✨ ʙʟᴜᴇ ᴡɪsʜᴇs ✨ sorry but it completely slipped my mind earlier, please create a female cat as stated in the rules about joining with atleast a male and female character.
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Post by Stealthfire on Apr 6, 2019 18:13:02 GMT -5
Runningpaw's legs began to ache, and he was thankful for Cavegrowl slowing his pace. The overconfident tom hated to look incapable, but he was calmed knowing no one but Cavegrowl was around to see him puffing for breath. There was no use in hiding his shortcomings from his mentor, who would know the apprentice's skills better than any other cat in the clan. Runningpaw caught up to the older tom, and was proud to have caught his breath in the meantime. He may not be able to compete with a senior warrior, but Runningpaw knew he plenty of time to grow. He only wished he could grow faster now, the apprentice had no idea what this new threat could pose.
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Duskfern narrowed her eyes at the monsters ahead. She observed carefully, considering how quickly they moved, where they looked to be facing, and what their purpose seemed to be. Her focus was broken by Pinenose, who had been taking in the wider scene, whispering her name urgently, motioning to a smaller, quicker moving form. Duskfern spotted it- another cat, far too close to the monsters to be safe. She flicked her tail to stop Pinenose from darting toward it. But when they saw it head straight across the Thunderpath and into the undergrowth, Duskfern's pelt bristled. This one threat had now come too close to stand by any longer. Reluctantly but with purpose, Duskfern nodded to Pinenose and the two cats moved silently closer to the brush where the cat had tumbled. Duskfern lowered herself to the ground as they neared the edge of the path.
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Post by Falconwing on Apr 7, 2019 2:07:29 GMT -5
The senior warrior and his apprentice quickly exited the eastern territory and bounded over the fallen oak and into the heart of Tangleclans lands. Cavegrowls mind had been whirling with the possibilities of what this new threat could pose and it made his dark pelt prickle. As they neared the camp the tom spoke out to his apprentice. "From now on and untill I say otherwise you are no longer allowed to go over the fallen oak and into Hare Meadow or beyond without me", the toms deep meow was firm. He was not willing to risk his apprentices life on the unknown threats, and despite how things sometimes appeared Cavegrowl had grown quite fond of Runningpaw. In some ways even considered him like the son he never had, but that wasnt something the tough tom was willing to voice. Casting his dark amber eyes back at Runningpaw he looked for confirmation that he had been heard and this request would be respected and followed.
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Fallowleaf had seen the last hunting patrol return and she eagerly trotted up to see what was available for the picking. The warrior had been busy with gathering more moss for her nest to help make it as cozy as possible now that the nights were getting colder, the last thing the fluffy she-cat enjoyed was waking in the middle of the night chilled to the bone. She flicked her tail and a kind and inviting way towards Sorrelstep and gave a dip of her head to Timberstar as she passed him up. "How was prey running this evening?", she asked the black shecat as she picked up Timberstars mouse that he had just deposited on the pile.
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Jagg was trying to catch his breath, but fear still gripped the tom. He had never encountered so many monsters and twolegs before, he had been so sure that he wouldnt make it out alive. The growling of a monster grew louder as it attacked the old farm and it made that sandy colored tom jump, quickly he turned away from it and headed deep into unknown territory trying to get as far away from thise things as possible.
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Post by Stealthfire on Apr 7, 2019 4:32:14 GMT -5
Runningpaw's thoughts were broken by Cavegrowl's command. He looked forward to the warrior and met his gaze strongly. "Yes. I understand," he replied in a serious tone. Runningpaw had already seen the monsters, there was no desire in him to see them again. His curiosity was stifled by his fear. Gladly, he pushed on with camp in sight. He thought back to Duskfern and Pinenose. He hadn't any reason to doubt his deputy, but he feared for them nonetheless. How could any cat want to stay longer in that place? he worried. Runningpaw hoped his courage with grow with time along with the rest of him.
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Sorrelstep shook her head to Fallowleaf who joined her at the fresh-kill pile. "Well enough for the two of us," she replied, nodding toward Timberstar. "But something tells me we were just lucky. I can't even remember how many stale scents I tracked, the prey must be anticipating a cold leaf-bare." Sorrelstep looked at the still small fresh-kill pile. If this was hunting in leaf-fall, she feared what could be in store for the clan in the next season. She sat down and began to lick a paw, running it over her whiskers as if to shake her frustration. -
As Duskfern crept through the undergrowth, she suddenly heard movement. This cat was pushing toward them. Looking back to Pinenose, his alert ears informed her that the warrior had heard it as well. Ahead, Duskfern saw a flash of fur, the colour of sand. She moved quickly, circling the cat to the side and following him closer. A strange pelt of a cat unfamiliar to her, a strong looking tom, and visible scars. This could be no kittypet, she thought grimly, noticing how they crossed the cat's shoulders. Between herself and Pinenose, she knew they were safe and could overpower him in numbers, but confrontation could still mean a nasty fight. Seeing Pinenose eagerly awaiting her next move, Duskfern knew there was no choice left, this cat was only going further into their territory. Picking up her pace, she and the trailing Pinenose bounded ahead of the cat, and revealed themselves directly in front of the tresspasser's path. With a dark look, Duskfern glowered, "Do you know where you are?"
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Post by Falconwing on Apr 7, 2019 9:12:39 GMT -5
Hearing his apprentices words Cavegrowl nodded and blinked thankfully at him for his cooperation. All he was trying to do was keep his apprentice safe. Pushing on the two toms were finally upon the camps entrance and he quickly rushed through. His skilled amber eyes immediately located his clan leader leaving the freshkill pile and heading towards his den. "Timberstar!", he called out to catch the toms attention. Reaching his side and a couple of bounds the dark tom dipped his head and began to speak. "There has been disturbing amount of monsters just across the thunderpath. They are attacking the old farm, Ive never seen anything like it", his meow was low as he tried to make it to where only the intended could hear, but Cavegrowls naturally deep rumbling voice still carried.
"Monsters! Off the thunderpath?!" The news Timberstar just received instantly worried him and he looked to the camp entrance anticipating the rest of thr patrol to enter but they didnt. "Where is Duskfern and Pinenose?" His question was quick and he started to feel a pit in his stomach. The missing members of the patrol were his deputy and only kit, definitely something he wanted.
Fallowleaf was about to respond to Sorrelstep when Cavegrowl and his apprentice Runningpaw had rushed into camp calling out to Timberstar. "Where they on the dusk patrol?" She questioned curiously to Sorrelstep. The young warrior focused her ears on them curious as to what the commotion was.
Still traumatized but the current events Jagg was not expecting two cats to suddenly appeared infront of him. His pelt instantly bristled and his lips raised. The sandy colored tom was still feeling like he had to fight for his life and a growl began to rumble in his throat. "Im just passing through" and he took a step forwards to prove that he was not aboit to stop on their account. He needed to get as far away from those momsters as possible.
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Post by 🇳ᴇcʀᴏᴅ🇦🇳cᴇʀ on Apr 7, 2019 13:14:11 GMT -5
Darkadder || 46 moons old || Tom Deputy? If not warrior is fine Muscled and large, this is an intimidating tom to look at and more than capable when it comes to the battlefield. Though his speed suffers as a result of his bulk, when face to face he is not an easy creature to take down. Marked with a coat of pitch black, splashed with dark grey patternings all across his back and body, in rosette like formations. His eyes are a particularly brilliant shade of icy blue, that seem to pierce the soul of those he looks at.
Strategic, calm and intelligent are likely the first terms that come to mind when considering this impressive tom cat. Not particularly quick to open up to others, he prefers to keep his circle of friends small. But he is loyal to the end, and would do almost anything for a loved one. Open to anything.
Tangled Hearts
Stormlily || 34 moons old|| Shecat Queen, if not warrior is fine. Small and delicate, this is a rather pretty young shecat, with a coat of calico patchwork, marked with splashes of black, orange and white all across her frame. Her eyes are a soft, forest green. Quiet and nervous, there is a certain charm to her that she is frankly too timid to use to be of any good to her. She has a heart of gold, but the nerve of a mouse at times. But know she means well, even if it isn't always apparent. Open to anything, particularly a mate.
Tangled Hearts
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Post by Falconwing on Apr 7, 2019 14:52:44 GMT -5
Both accepted of course Duskfern is already deputy, so Darkadder will have to be a warrior. But if you like he could always be challenging her to cause a lovely lil bit of drama Stormlily can be queen. If no one claims her as her mate then we can make like a random OC who somehow gets killed off or captured by the monsters.
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Post by Falconwing on Apr 7, 2019 14:53:35 GMT -5
On second thought.... im just gonna make a whole form... i convinced myself XD
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Post by 🇳ᴇcʀᴏᴅ🇦🇳cᴇʀ on Apr 7, 2019 14:55:10 GMT -5
Awesome!
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Post by Falconwing on Apr 7, 2019 15:26:28 GMT -5
Otterheart || 40 || Tom Warrior Otterheart is of average size with a well muscled form and round features. His pelt is like a chocolate cream color with dark brown almost black points. His eyes are a frosty blue that really stand out against his dark pelt. While of average size this tom is still a very skilled warrior, swift acting and courageous are definitely good words to describe this toms personality. Stormlilys mate.
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Post by 🇳ᴇcʀᴏᴅ🇦🇳cᴇʀ on Apr 7, 2019 15:31:36 GMT -5
He’s so cute!
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Post by Falconwing on Apr 7, 2019 16:38:00 GMT -5
Haha i know right! He cheesing so handsomly XD
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Post by 🇳ᴇcʀᴏᴅ🇦🇳cᴇʀ on Apr 7, 2019 16:38:50 GMT -5
Want to roleplay?
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Post by Stealthfire on Apr 7, 2019 16:58:07 GMT -5
[Hey welcome! :) Crafting up a reply now Falcon]
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Post by Stealthfire on Apr 7, 2019 17:45:35 GMT -5
Runningpaw stood slightly behind Cavegrowl, watching Timberstar's reaction. He saw his concern when the brown tom asked about the others, and piped up quickly, "They stayed longer to watch the monsters and make sure things are safe for now..." He suddenly worried. Duskfern clearly wanted him to leave, it was no place for an apprentice. If they didn't come back soon, would things have been different with more warriors? What if more cats, stronger cats could be of more help to Duskfern and Pinenose right now. He looked over to the entrance, desperately hoping they'd be trailing just behind.
Sorrelstep followed the action at the same time as Fallowleaf. She nodded "They were.. but they weren't the only two." Her heart skipped when she realised that her sister was with the half that was not back in camp. Something must have been desperately important for the deputy to split the patrol and stay out of camp herself. And knowing Duskfern, Sorrelstep could imagine very few things to make the highly cautious she-cat take such action.
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Duskfern remained still, but Pinenose's pelt bristled in response to the tom. His voice was hostile, and he stepped forward, proving no sign of surrender or fear that wasn't being shown through aggression. Duskfern paused. This tom was not as resigned as she'd hoped. "I see." She responded, but didn't move. Duskfern couldn't demand that he leave their territory immediately, as the only way back was to the Thunderpath, and to the monsters. By the looks of this cat's startled escape, he would go out fighting to the end before he turned tail to face them again. But, the last thing she wanted was to allow him to continue through their territory, taking their prey and potentially running into more of her clanmates. Escorting him to the other edges of their territory would take far too long at this point, Duskfern couldn't afford to stay away from camp and cause worry much longer after only wanting to linger to observe for a small while. And besides, there was no guarantee this tom would go so far and stay out. Finally, she meowed, "I understand you're running from...those," she began, "Where you are now is not open territory. This belongs to Tangleclan. We can't permit loners to just pass through."
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Post by Stealthfire on Apr 7, 2019 18:13:06 GMT -5
[Ooh actually Darkadder always challenging Duskfern is a cool trait I'd be so down for that drama. Especially with her having to decide about what to do with Jagg at the moment, whatever she decides Darkadder could be upset about it haha]
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Post by Falconwing on Apr 9, 2019 15:29:51 GMT -5
((Hey guys sorry for my absence ive been having issues with my phone screen and just got it fixed))
Timberstar turned his head towards the apprentice when he spoke up. Listening to Runningpaw the clan leader lifted his tail and looked around. "Darkadder!" He called out searching for the tom. Seeing him not far off he waved his tail beckoning him. "Join me, and Cavegrowl we will go back to where you left Duskfern and Pinenose. I wish to see this for myself." Timberstar needed to lay eyes on this new threat so he could figure what to do next. Turning the dark brown tom could see Sorrelstep and Fallowleaf next to the freshkill pile. "Sorrelstep, Fallowleaf; I need you two to go up to the peak of the hollow and keep watch over camp while we are gone. We will be back as soon as we can."
Fallowleaf was leaning in the listen more intently when Timberstar began to address other clanmembers. She jumped slightly when Timberstar called upon her, it was definitely unexpected. Dipping her head to her leader she accepted the task and looked over at Sorrelstep letting the older warrior lead the way out towards their posts.
Otterheart was lingering just outside the nursery with a cardinal clamped firmly in his jaws. He had just returned from hunting and was bringing the bird to Stormlily, his pregnant mate. He dtopped just outside the entrance entrigued by what was happening it camp. He could hear Timberstar calling out cats. The seal brown tom quickly came to the conclusion that the ckan leader was leaving camp and that something had occurred on the dusk patrol. Sitting down he waited to see what else would happen.
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Post by Falconwing on Apr 9, 2019 15:37:26 GMT -5
Jagg could see hostility arise in the brown tom, but the dark shecat remained calm. He was confused as to whether or not these two cats posed as a threat or not. All he knew is that he needed to keep moving, as far as he could go. "I have no choice but to pass through. Keep your prey, Im getting out of here" and with that he began to skirt around the two cat trying to go around them.
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Post by Falconwing on Apr 11, 2019 13:10:02 GMT -5
Bump
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Post by Stealthfire on Dec 2, 2019 16:06:30 GMT -5
Duskfern's eyes narrowed at the loner as she remained motionless, assessing the likelihood of his words being true. The bristling Pinenose still stood in his path, but with a flick of her tail Duskfern signaled the warrior to step aside. "I advise you do exactly that," she warned the departing tom, "Go as far as your paws will take you. I can't make any promise for your safety if you're by clan cats found again. Especially if I'm not with them." Duskfern intended to watch the loner for as long as she could still see him leave. "Remember that scent, Pinenose," she meowed quietly to the warrior, who had taken up place behind her. "We'll be patrolling even more for this tom the next days."
Pinenose nodded in agreement. He would do as his deputy asked, but worried what his clanmates might think of letting a loner pass freely through. Most importantly, he wondered what his father would think, and if Timerstar would have made a different choice. Pinenose had difficulty coming up with his own opinions, but he had even more difficulty going against others'.
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Sorrelstep swiftly rose to her paws. She quickly dipped her head to Timberstar before going in the direction of Tangle Hollow's peak. When they had begun to leave, Sorrelstep began to chatter to Fallowleaf. "I hope Duskfern and Pinenose only stayed to keep watch on the thunderpath, and that there isn't anything..." she trailed off, hoping her fellow warrior knew she was only worried about her sister. "And Runningpaw, it takes a lot to make that young cat let himself appear afraid." Part of her wished she could turn around and go toward Duskfern, but Sorrelstep was well old enough to understand how important it was for herself and Fallowleaf to keep guard at that moment. Besides, Duskfern was so cautious, she would be taking no risks.
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Post by Stealthfire on Dec 2, 2019 16:27:22 GMT -5
[Very sorry I went offline for so long, I had a mad semester but I'm all done now and back again if you still wanted to rp this!:)]
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Aromantic
𝚜𝚑𝚢𝚒𝚗𝚞𝚗
gojo. that is all.
Pronouns: she/her, they/them
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Post by 𝚜𝚑𝚢𝚒𝚗𝚞𝚗 on Dec 2, 2019 18:50:35 GMT -5
Softfeather|| 24 moons || She-cat Warrior Appearance: Softfeather is a feathered, gray, almost smoke gray she-cat. She has a white muzzle, chest and paws. Has bright orange eyes. Personailty: Softfeather has a way with words, she could use them to her defense or use them to others advantages, it really depends. She is sassy, especially to her brother Archfoot. She believes that she should be praised and expects cats to listen to her. Although she is like this, she does have feelings and she is easily hurt by any type of negative words to her or her family. She may think highly of herself, but she puts her family above her. Kin: Archfoot (Brother), open for crush, mate, etc ⌖ɪʟʟᴜsɪᴏɴɪsᴛᴘʀɪᴍᴇ⌖ Archfoot| 24 moons || Tom Warrior Appearance: Archfoot is a light brown color with tabby stripes. A lighter brown runs along the inside of his front legs, muzzle and above his eyes. He has a white patch on his chest and paws. Archfoot's eyes are golden. Personailty: Archfoot loves to be with his clanmates and he is easily the most friendliest cat anyone could meet, however, he is real nasty when he is angered. He does have a sharp tongue when it comes to talking back, but he rarely uses any type of foul language. He uses his wisdom to aid in any way he can. He rarely fights, but he needs to, he is one to use words rather than claws. Kin: Softfeather (Sister), open for crush, mate, etc ⌖ɪʟʟᴜsɪᴏɴɪsᴛᴘʀɪᴍᴇ⌖
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Post by Falconwing on Dec 3, 2019 9:35:17 GMT -5
Softfeather|| 24 moons || She-cat Warrior Appearance: Softfeather is a feathered, gray, almost smoke gray she-cat. She has a white muzzle, chest and paws. Has bright orange eyes. Personailty: Softfeather has a way with words, she could use them to her defense or use them to others advantages, it really depends. She is sassy, especially to her brother Archfoot. She believes that she should be praised and expects cats to listen to her. Although she is like this, she does have feelings and she is easily hurt by any type of negative words to her or her family. She may think highly of herself, but she puts her family above her. Kin: Archfoot (Brother), open for crush, mate, etc ⌖ɪʟʟᴜsɪᴏɴɪsᴛᴘʀɪᴍᴇ⌖ Archfoot| 24 moons || Tom Warrior Appearance: Archfoot is a light brown color with tabby stripes. A lighter brown runs along the inside of his front legs, muzzle and above his eyes. He has a white patch on his chest and paws. Archfoot's eyes are golden. Personailty: Archfoot loves to be with his clanmates and he is easily the most friendliest cat anyone could meet, however, he is real nasty when he is angered. He does have a sharp tongue when it comes to talking back, but he rarely uses any type of foul language. He uses his wisdom to aid in any way he can. He rarely fights, but he needs to, he is one to use words rather than claws. Kin: Softfeather (Sister), open for crush, mate, etc ⌖ɪʟʟᴜsɪᴏɴɪsᴛᴘʀɪᴍᴇ⌖ Accepted!
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Post by Falconwing on Dec 3, 2019 9:37:07 GMT -5
[Very sorry I went offline for so long, I had a mad semester but I'm all done now and back again if you still wanted to rp this! ] Im so excited you are back, hope your semester didn't drive you insane, I know they can be crazy! I would love to keep this one going I will be posting my reply in just a little bit. 》
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Post by Falconwing on Dec 3, 2019 9:53:50 GMT -5
Jagg couldnt help but give the fenale a slight dip of his head to show gratitude. She was letting him pass unscathed and he recognized that she was taking a risk on him. Hopefully this clans territory didn't stretch to far out infront of him cause his belly was empty and aching for something to fill it. Jagg liked to think hinself a cat eho would uphold his own word, but hunger can drive one to do things they would not normally do. Not wanting to linger any longer than he had to Jagg pressed past the pair and bounded off deeper into the Tangleclans territory. Little did he know he was heading straight for their camp. 《Maybe he can come across Sorrelstep and Fallowleaf and not be so lucky》 ◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇◇ Bounding after her fellow warrior, Fallowleaf kept pace a tail length behind Sorrelstep as they made their way to the peak of Tangled Hollow. "Duskfern is wise enough to not get herself tangled up in any trouble without having some back up. I am sure that her and Pinenose are just fine." Though she did her best to comfort her worried friend, Fallowleaf couldn't help but feel a tinge or worry about her clanmates. Especially for Pinenose, though unbeknownst to the tom, she had taken a liking to the young brown warrior. "But if they did come across anything they both are strong and capable warriors." She continued to talk the pair up in hopes that she herself would also stop worrying about them. Stealthfire
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Post by νσι∂ on Dec 3, 2019 12:30:23 GMT -5
Aspenleap || 32 moons old || she-cat Warrior Aspenleap is a tall, fluffy furred feline with a creamy grayish-brown coat. She has dark brown tabby markings on her flanks, tail, forehead, and cheeks. There is a white patch on her chest and each of her paws is white as well. Her eyes are a very light green. Open-minded and tolerant, this molly doesn't find herself in many arguments. She is normally rather cheerful and outgoing, just kind of going with the flow and taking life's punches with a smile. However, when she does feel strongly about something she can be very outspoken. Aspenleap isn't one to sit idly by and watch as arguments or fights break out, rather she pushes herself to act as a mediator. This warrior has a terrible habit of taking other's problems as her own and often takes on more than she can bear. She is her own harshest judge. No crushes or mates atm, open. No kin atm either, open. Tangled Hearts Picture
Shadowpaw || 11 moons || tom Apprentice Shadowpaw is a ghost tabby - a dark gray furred tom with black tabby stripes. He has lighter grey streaks throughout his pelt including around his eyes, cheeks, chest, underbelly, paws, and tail. A small white spot sits in the center of his chest. His eyes are a pale yellowish-green. Blunt must be his middle name. He lacks a filter when he speaks, which can get him into trouble. When it comes to socializing he isn't exactly introverted but can have a hard time connecting with others. Shadowpaw is courageous when he needs to be and intuitive. Loyalty is something he values and he has little patience for others who lie or betray him - he may forgive but he never forgets. He is a protective individual that treasures those that get close to him above all else. No mates or crushes atm, open. No kin atm, open. Tangled Hearts Picture
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Post by Falconwing on Dec 3, 2019 13:05:10 GMT -5
Aspenleap || 32 moons old || she-cat Warrior Aspenleap is a tall, fluffy furred feline with a creamy grayish-brown coat. She has dark brown tabby markings on her flanks, tail, forehead, and cheeks. There is a white patch on her chest and each of her paws is white as well. Her eyes are a very light green. Open-minded and tolerant, this molly doesn't find herself in many arguments. She is normally rather cheerful and outgoing, just kind of going with the flow and taking life's punches with a smile. However, when she does feel strongly about something she can be very outspoken. Aspenleap isn't one to sit idly by and watch as arguments or fights break out, rather she pushes herself to act as a mediator. This warrior has a terrible habit of taking other's problems as her own and often takes on more than she can bear. She is her own harshest judge. No crushes or mates atm, open. No kin atm either, open. Tangled Hearts Picture
Shadowpaw || 11 moons || tom Apprentice Shadowpaw is a ghost tabby - a dark gray furred tom with black tabby stripes. He has lighter grey streaks throughout his pelt including around his eyes, cheeks, chest, underbelly, paws, and tail. A small white spot sits in the center of his chest. His eyes are a pale yellowish-green. Blunt must be his middle name. He lacks a filter when he speaks, which can get him into trouble. When it comes to socializing he isn't exactly introverted but can have a hard time connecting with others. Shadowpaw is courageous when he needs to be and intuitive. Loyalty is something he values and he has little patience for others who lie or betray him - he may forgive but he never forgets. He is a protective individual that treasures those that get close to him above all else. No mates or crushes atm, open. No kin atm, open. Tangled Hearts Picture
Accepted! Otterheart can be Shadowpaws mentor
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Post by Falconwing on Dec 3, 2019 14:02:07 GMT -5
《 ✨ ʙʟᴜᴇ ᴡɪsʜᴇs ✨ 🇳ᴇcʀᴏᴅ🇦🇳cᴇʀ this RP is starting back up, I need to know if you are still interested. In 48 if I haven't heard anything then your charachters will be erased. You are more than welcome to join up again later on.》
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Aromantic
𝚜𝚑𝚢𝚒𝚗𝚞𝚗
gojo. that is all.
Pronouns: she/her, they/them
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Post by 𝚜𝚑𝚢𝚒𝚗𝚞𝚗 on Dec 3, 2019 14:14:43 GMT -5
Softfeather Sliding out of the warriors den, Softfeather looked around the camp. The smokey-gray she-cat's orange optics shimmered as she wondered where her clanmates had wondered off too. Of course, she had ideas, but she wasn't planning on leaving if she didn't need too. Swaying her bushy tail, Softfeather padded into the camp clearing, What to do? She questioned herself.
Archfoot The brown tabby had decided to head out to see what he could catch. But, he could smell his clanmates further ahead and thought that it would be best to join them. Archfoot figured he would hunt later, after he grouped up with the cats that where out. He purred to himself, imagining his sister's face when he showed up with prey.
//ahhh, both are open-
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