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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 13:00:02 GMT -5
What do you think about him? I loathe him with every fiber of my being. I loathe him way more than Ivypool and even Ashfur.
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Post by scint on Mar 15, 2019 13:02:25 GMT -5
Hate him. His character is completely butchered in books after Shattered Sky. Had they kept him like he was after the main events in Shattered Sky, then I would be neutral. But no. They didn't.
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Post by Haze on Mar 15, 2019 13:16:38 GMT -5
I like him a lot, he concerned about the Riverclan captives, doing everything he can to keep Snowbird safe while they were in the kin and him feeling bad about almost blinding Tawnypelt despite her attacking him first make me sympathize with him.
I really hope that he is the mentor of Pouncepaw in the next arc.
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Post by embertuft on Mar 15, 2019 13:31:22 GMT -5
I love him. I know he’s done a lot of bad things, and I accept that there’s major flaws in his character. But he did show genuine concern for Snowbird and the kits, wanting to get prey for them. Also when Yarrowleaf returned, he supported the choice to bring her back, which I liked.
I wasn’t happy with his actions, and that made me go neutral on his character, although I regained a liking for him later on.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 13:46:33 GMT -5
After Darkest Night, I really can't find myself liking him (though he did seem to mellow down during the last two books of A Vision Of Shadows).
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Mar 15, 2019 14:32:51 GMT -5
He's a good character. Has more personality than most. And I like that he's cowardly and frustrated at some times, but also brave and loving to his family. Seeing him being so proud of Cloverfoot when she was chosen to be deputy was really touching.
Out of most of the background characters in SC, he seems to be getting a lot of screentime, and I like that. I really want to see him spend time with an apprentice, or maybe showing support for his daughter and being protective of his family. It would be nice to see more of that side of him.
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Post by vectoring34 on Mar 15, 2019 16:44:19 GMT -5
Scorchfur saying he preferred Darktail twice was nailing his coffin shut. That was utterly foul.
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Post by Moonblazer on Mar 15, 2019 18:05:05 GMT -5
See I’m not a fan of a cat who tells their leader that the cat who brutally drowned his daughter was a better cat and leader than him. You’d think he’d understand the anguish considering he’s a father, but clearly he cares only about himself and about making everything more difficult.
Juniperclaw should have been switched with Scorchfur. He’s garbage.
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Post by Brindlefern on Mar 15, 2019 18:07:18 GMT -5
I loathe him a lot, and after SS I wanted to toss him into the lake with the others.
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Mar 15, 2019 18:16:53 GMT -5
I'm not too much of a fan of Scorchfur.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Mar 16, 2019 23:39:48 GMT -5
Ehh to each their own. Everyone handles anguish differently, Scorchfur is no exception, no one is a perfect character. He just has personality and is more realistic and verbal compared to most.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Mar 16, 2019 23:46:13 GMT -5
I think he's an interesting character, but I'm not too fond of him as a cat, for reasons that should be obvious.
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Post by vectoring34 on Mar 16, 2019 23:52:31 GMT -5
Ehh to each their own. Everyone handles anguish differently, Scorchfur is no exception, no one is a perfect character. He just has personality and is more realistic and verbal compared to most. He handles anguish by supporting the guy who caused him anguish? There's a wide gap between not perfect and praising a murderous dictator in front of someone who lost a daughter to said murderous dictator. He's definitely realistic, but more in the "Militant strongmen are totally fine so long as they don't affect me" kind of way than anything else.
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Post by mymerlincat on Mar 17, 2019 2:10:05 GMT -5
Like him a lot.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Mar 17, 2019 3:11:34 GMT -5
Ehh to each their own. Everyone handles anguish differently, Scorchfur is no exception, no one is a perfect character. He just has personality and is more realistic and verbal compared to most. He handles anguish by supporting the guy who caused him anguish? There's a wide gap between not perfect and praising a murderous dictator in front of someone who lost a daughter to said murderous dictator. He's definitely realistic, but more in the "Militant strongmen are totally fine so long as they don't affect me" kind of way than anything else. It's more like he wants to blame someone so he blames Rowanstar and tries to verbally hit him where he knows he'll hurt, but comparing him to Darktail. He does and says things when he's angry, but it doesn't mean he lacks morals. When he attacked Tawnypelt he felt horrible about it, regret even, and thought it was enough means to leave. You forget that Scorchfur wasn't the only cat that supported Darktail when he was still alive. You've also made the argument that Scorchfur and Juniperclaw weren't the only incidences of cats talking about Rowan and disrespecting him because they don't think he's a good leader. I think Scorchfur is realistic in a sense that he's cowardly. He's frustrated and wants to blame someone, he and most of the ShadowClan cats at this point are in the same boat. But he's got room to be developed. He shows that he actually does care about his family, and about his clan, and that he has morals, like when he stood up to the kin and defended RiverClan. If we are going to get a ShadowClan pov in the next arc, after all, I personally hope to see more of Scorchfur and how he'll develop, especially with his daughter being a deputy now.
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Asexual
Mayflower
I am a Daisy and Ferncloud stan first, and a human being second
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Post by Mayflower on Mar 17, 2019 12:20:49 GMT -5
Ehh to each their own. Everyone handles anguish differently, Scorchfur is no exception, no one is a perfect character. He just has personality and is more realistic and verbal compared to most. He handles anguish by supporting the guy who caused him anguish? There's a wide gap between not perfect and praising a murderous dictator in front of someone who lost a daughter to said murderous dictator. He's definitely realistic, but more in the "Militant strongmen are totally fine so long as they don't affect me" kind of way than anything else. Funny enough, ShC kept talking about wanting to return to the days of Brokenstar and Tigerstar so badly, and out of most of those cats (who were poor, wanna-be imitations of past ShC warriors at best; I highly doubt they could've handled either of those leaders' regimes if they thought Rowanstar's rules were suffocating), Scorchfur reminds me of the warriors from then. So many got away scot-free with their crimes of murder, prey theft, immoral ambushes on camps with elders and kits, deliberate targets to slaughter certain cats, and openly and verbally supporting their leaders' vile ways during things like Stonefur's murder simply because they were part of Brokenstar and/or Tigerstar's inner circle, or the Clan was just desperate to bolster their numbers. I always thought it was a cop-out how they supposedly "redeemed" themselves when they later fought BloodClan on LionClan's behalf. Their loyalties to specific cats or ShC were just as wishy-wash as Scorchfur's...but they never dared talk back to Brokenstar or Tigerstar. I find that funny, because then Rowanstar would've been awful and disgusting if he'd reacted how either previous ShC leader would've if faced with such disrespect and defiance. Scorchfur is no better in my eyes than how I see the ShC cats from back then, tbh, but just a little more watered down than they were. I would have exiled him ages ago.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2019 13:21:24 GMT -5
I will never forgive Scorchfur for nearly blinding an innocent Tawnypelt. Even if she did start the fight, it's against the code to do something so brutal. Scorchfur could have permanently blinded her. It doesn't matter if he was going through stress, or that he was worried about his family. Verbally and physically hurting Tawnypelt and Rowanstar just because "he's stressed" is not a good reason to damage others permanently. I know he's not fully why Rowanstar has low self-esteem about himself, but he is a part of it, as he's one of the few cats constantly shown to bully him next to Needletail and others. Scorchfur doesn't deserve forgiveness, not unless he's shown remorse for hurting Rowanstar, which, he hasn't. He's disgusting trash.
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Post by embertuft on Mar 17, 2019 19:36:48 GMT -5
I guess I should leave the room
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Mar 17, 2019 19:47:12 GMT -5
I mean, he seems to be a good mate and genuinely cares for Snowbird and his kits, but he's also a terrible cat in every other facet. So eh.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Mar 17, 2019 22:29:43 GMT -5
He handles anguish by supporting the guy who caused him anguish? There's a wide gap between not perfect and praising a murderous dictator in front of someone who lost a daughter to said murderous dictator. He's definitely realistic, but more in the "Militant strongmen are totally fine so long as they don't affect me" kind of way than anything else. Funny enough, ShC kept talking about wanting to return to the days of Brokenstar and Tigerstar so badly, and out of most of those cats (who were poor, wanna-be imitations of past ShC warriors at best; I highly doubt they could've handled either of those leaders' regimes if they thought Rowanstar's rules were suffocating), Scorchfur reminds me of the warriors from then. So many got away scot-free with their crimes of murder, prey theft, immoral ambushes on camps with elders and kits, deliberate targets to slaughter certain cats, and openly and verbally supporting their leaders' vile ways during things like Stonefur's murder simply because they were part of Brokenstar and/or Tigerstar's inner circle, or the Clan was just desperate to bolster their numbers. I always thought it was a cop-out how they supposedly "redeemed" themselves when they later fought BloodClan on LionClan's behalf. Their loyalties to specific cats or ShC were just as wishy-wash as Scorchfur's...but they never dared talk back to Brokenstar or Tigerstar. I find that funny, because then Rowanstar would've been awful and disgusting if he'd reacted how either previous ShC leader would've if faced with such disrespect and defiance. Scorchfur is no better in my eyes than how I see the ShC cats from back then, tbh, but just a little more watered down than they were. I would have exiled him ages ago. Exiled him for what? For siding with Darktail? Cause if that's the case then the rest of the clan should be exiled too, lol. Or exile for him disrespecting Rowan, because I was told that Rowanstar couldn't afford to punish his cats at the time lease he lose numbers. Rowan has morals, I feel like you guys aren't acknowledging that side of him in favor of his other deeds. He literally was going to leave the clan because he felt bad for attacking Tawnypelt despite it being self-defense and because he was frustrated with Rowanstar's leadership. He was taking the initiative to leave, the only reason he stayed was because of Tigerheart. And Tigerheart only did it for his own gain, not the sake of the clan.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Mar 17, 2019 22:32:03 GMT -5
I will never forgive Scorchfur for nearly blinding an innocent Tawnypelt. Even if she did start the fight, it's against the code to do something so brutal. Scorchfur could have permanently blinded her. It doesn't matter if he was going through stress, or that he was worried about his family. Verbally and physically hurting Tawnypelt and Rowanstar just because "he's stressed" is not a good reason to damage others permanently. I know he's not fully why Rowanstar has low self-esteem about himself, but he is a part of it, as he's one of the few cats constantly shown to bully him next to Needletail and others. Scorchfur doesn't deserve forgiveness, not unless he's shown remorse for hurting Rowanstar, which, he hasn't. He's disgusting trash. Lmao, it was self-defense, but okay. He literally didn't mean to, and even felt guilty about it later to the point he was going to leave the clan. He was literally going to exile himself from ShadowClan due to guilt, and his frustration toward Rowanstar, but okay. Also maybe if Rowanstar actually had the guts to defend himself and dish out punishments his clan wouldn't be walking all over him in the first place, just saying.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2019 23:09:17 GMT -5
I will never forgive Scorchfur for nearly blinding an innocent Tawnypelt. Even if she did start the fight, it's against the code to do something so brutal. Scorchfur could have permanently blinded her. It doesn't matter if he was going through stress, or that he was worried about his family. Verbally and physically hurting Tawnypelt and Rowanstar just because "he's stressed" is not a good reason to damage others permanently. I know he's not fully why Rowanstar has low self-esteem about himself, but he is a part of it, as he's one of the few cats constantly shown to bully him next to Needletail and others. Scorchfur doesn't deserve forgiveness, not unless he's shown remorse for hurting Rowanstar, which, he hasn't. He's disgusting trash. Lmao, it was self-defense, but okay. He literally didn't mean to, and even felt guilty about it later to the point he was going to leave the clan. He was literally going to exile himself from ShadowClan due to guilt, and his frustration toward Rowanstar, but okay. Also maybe if Rowanstar actually had the guts to defend himself and dish out punishments his clan wouldn't be walking all over him in the first place, just saying. So Scorchfur didn't mean to verbally abuse Rowanstar constantly? He has self-control. He was beating Rowanstar down, and even if it was self-defense, going for Tawny's eye was extreme. At the very least, he could have just gone for her side instead of trying to permanently blinding her. When you're an adult, with the mature state of mind, you have enough self-control for your emotions. And what did you expect Rowanstar to do? He tried to punish the apprentices, he really tried to make them listen, but they didn't. The apprentinces formed their own little group, and went against their leader. Now, it's actually been a while since I've read AVoS, I'll admit that, so maybe I'm getting something wrong here. I can't exactly remember the fight Tawny and Scorch had, but like I said, even if he was defending himself, going for her eye was cruel, and he was even disgusted with himself. He was going to become a traitor, leaving ShadowClan for SkyClan, because he blamed Rowanstar for not being a good leader. Scorchfur is a traitor, period. He should have been exiled, like people say.
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Asexual
Mayflower
I am a Daisy and Ferncloud stan first, and a human being second
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Post by Mayflower on Mar 18, 2019 2:20:20 GMT -5
Funny enough, ShC kept talking about wanting to return to the days of Brokenstar and Tigerstar so badly, and out of most of those cats (who were poor, wanna-be imitations of past ShC warriors at best; I highly doubt they could've handled either of those leaders' regimes if they thought Rowanstar's rules were suffocating), Scorchfur reminds me of the warriors from then. So many got away scot-free with their crimes of murder, prey theft, immoral ambushes on camps with elders and kits, deliberate targets to slaughter certain cats, and openly and verbally supporting their leaders' vile ways during things like Stonefur's murder simply because they were part of Brokenstar and/or Tigerstar's inner circle, or the Clan was just desperate to bolster their numbers. I always thought it was a cop-out how they supposedly "redeemed" themselves when they later fought BloodClan on LionClan's behalf. Their loyalties to specific cats or ShC were just as wishy-wash as Scorchfur's...but they never dared talk back to Brokenstar or Tigerstar. I find that funny, because then Rowanstar would've been awful and disgusting if he'd reacted how either previous ShC leader would've if faced with such disrespect and defiance. Scorchfur is no better in my eyes than how I see the ShC cats from back then, tbh, but just a little more watered down than they were. I would have exiled him ages ago. Exiled him for what? For siding with Darktail? Cause if that's the case then the rest of the clan should be exiled too, lol. Or exile for him disrespecting Rowan, because I was told that Rowanstar couldn't afford to punish his cats at the time lease he lose numbers. Rowan has morals, I feel like you guys aren't acknowledging that side of him in favor of his other deeds. He literally was going to leave the clan because he felt bad for attacking Tawnypelt despite it being self-defense and because he was frustrated with Rowanstar's leadership. He was taking the initiative to leave, the only reason he stayed was because of Tigerheart. And Tigerheart only did it for his own gain, not the sake of the clan. You and I have tread this before. My reasons back then for why I feel he should be exiled hasn't changed. Since I don't wanna unnecessarily requote stuff, here's the link to my detailed post when we discussed it: wcrpforums.com/post/166802Y'all know how I am, and pretty much anyone who has seen my posts here in the general forum since the day I joined know I'm always up for debate. I like getting my mind changed on characters and being challenged to rethink how I see them...in this case, however, my thoughts on Scorchfur's behavior are firm. EDIT: smh posted the wrong link while browsing the forum randomly and not paying attention. meant this one wcrpforums.com/thread/47818/rowanstar-tdn-ts-spoilers?page=1&scrollTo=1668026
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Post by Brindlefern on Mar 18, 2019 2:28:32 GMT -5
Exiled him for what? For siding with Darktail? Cause if that's the case then the rest of the clan should be exiled too, lol. Or exile for him disrespecting Rowan, because I was told that Rowanstar couldn't afford to punish his cats at the time lease he lose numbers. Rowan has morals, I feel like you guys aren't acknowledging that side of him in favor of his other deeds. He literally was going to leave the clan because he felt bad for attacking Tawnypelt despite it being self-defense and because he was frustrated with Rowanstar's leadership. He was taking the initiative to leave, the only reason he stayed was because of Tigerheart. And Tigerheart only did it for his own gain, not the sake of the clan. You and I have tread this before. My reasons back then for why I feel he should be exiled hasn't changed. Since I don't wanna unnecessarily requote stuff, here's the link to my detailed post when we discussed it: wcrpforums.com/post/166802Y'all know how I am, and pretty much anyone who has seen my posts here in the general forum since the day I joined know I'm always up for debate. I like getting my mind changed on characters and being challenged to rethink how I see them...in this case, however, my thoughts on Scorchfur's behavior are firm. Did ya post the wrong link? It's going to a RP page for me
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Asexual
Mayflower
I am a Daisy and Ferncloud stan first, and a human being second
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Post by Mayflower on Mar 18, 2019 3:04:53 GMT -5
You and I have tread this before. My reasons back then for why I feel he should be exiled hasn't changed. Since I don't wanna unnecessarily requote stuff, here's the link to my detailed post when we discussed it: wcrpforums.com/post/166802Y'all know how I am, and pretty much anyone who has seen my posts here in the general forum since the day I joined know I'm always up for debate. I like getting my mind changed on characters and being challenged to rethink how I see them...in this case, however, my thoughts on Scorchfur's behavior are firm. Did ya post the wrong link? It's going to a RP page for me Oof. This is what I get for not paying attention and glancing around and clicking random posts for fun while I was typing and not being able to sleep at 3am Meant this link: wcrpforums.com/thread/47818/rowanstar-tdn-ts-spoilers?page=1&scrollTo=1668026
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2019 3:22:20 GMT -5
Lmao, it was self-defense, but okay. He literally didn't mean to, and even felt guilty about it later to the point he was going to leave the clan. He was literally going to exile himself from ShadowClan due to guilt, and his frustration toward Rowanstar, but okay. Also maybe if Rowanstar actually had the guts to defend himself and dish out punishments his clan wouldn't be walking all over him in the first place, just saying. So Scorchfur didn't mean to verbally abuse Rowanstar constantly? He has self-control. He was beating Rowanstar down, and even if it was self-defense, going for Tawny's eye was extreme. At the very least, he could have just gone for her side instead of trying to permanently blinding her. When you're an adult, with the mature state of mind, you have enough self-control for your emotions. And what did you expect Rowanstar to do? He tried to punish the apprentices, he really tried to make them listen, but they didn't. The apprentinces formed their own little group, and went against their leader. Now, it's actually been a while since I've read AVoS, I'll admit that, so maybe I'm getting something wrong here. I can't exactly remember the fight Tawny and Scorch had, but like I said, even if he was defending himself, going for her eye was cruel, and he was even disgusted with himself. He was going to become a traitor, leaving ShadowClan for SkyClan, because he blamed Rowanstar for not being a good leader. Scorchfur is a traitor, period. He should have been exiled, like people say. What makes Scorchfur arguing/insulting Rowanstar any more special then countless other cases like it? Especially to the point of exile? They're leaders, they meant to make tough chooses, which should be able to be critiqued and be able to handle it. Should Firestar exile every cat that insulted him for being a kittypet? Should Leopardstar exile Blackclaw for spread rumours behind Mistyfoot's back, his own mate? Was Onestar justified in exiling Crowfeather for speaking against his plan, literally calling it "stupid"? Should Onestar have exiled every one of Mudclaw's followers, including the likes of Nightcloud and apprentices?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2019 6:41:53 GMT -5
Im not changing my mind. Agree to disagree, sorry. End of story. Scorchfur is trash. He shouldn't be excused for his bullying.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Mar 18, 2019 7:21:18 GMT -5
> Scorchfur should know how to behave because he's an adult
> But Rowanstar is the victim because he can't handle being criticized?
I find it pretty strange people want Scorchfur to be exiled, when he was gladly going to leave in the first place anyways.
Exiled is just the leader telling him to leave. Do you think he'd really care if it was Rowanstar if he didn't respect him in the first place?
Him leaving because he felt bad for what he did to Tawnypelt, and being frustrated with Rowanstar is why he was going to leave. He believed Leafstar was a stronger and better leader, and lmao he's not wrong. If he wanted to change loyalties, that's his choice.
What was Rowanstar going to do? Force him to stay? Exile him anyways? Wouldn't matter he was going to leave still. So I'm trying to figure out what you guys are getting at when you say he should have been exiled, I'm pretty sure he would have just gladly left if that was the case. Juniperclaw and other cats were apparently in the same boat, Scorchfur wasn't the only one that didn't want Rowanstar as a leader anymore.
Also, Rowanstar being an irresponsible leader was before Darktail even came into the picture, he admits to knowing about the apprentices breaking the rules from the get-go and did nothing about it. If he's supposed to be a leader, he needs to act like one. I feel like people are babying him too much, and then excusing his faults as a leader, when he was a deputy for moons and already had the proper training. He could have prevented so many things that happened to ShadowClan down the line. Nothing was stopping him from punishing the apprentices that apparently he was oh so helpless against before it all got out of hand. Leaders aren't helpless kits.
Do I feel bad for Rowanstar? Yes. Do I think he deserved better in the narritive? Yes. Do I think he's entirely at fault with how things went down? No. But do I believe he has a some fault either way? Yes.
Not it's not entirely his fault, but yes he still holds some fault for the issues in the clan.
He admits to letting younger cats break rules without being punished. That led to the being disrespectful of authority and their elders. And eventually made it even easier for Darktail and the kin to recruit cats from his clan.
Add in the fact that they became sick and lost cats, because WindClan with held herbs, together it was the start of ShadowClan's downfall. Not to mention how at this point, generations of ShadowClan cats being used to tyrannical like behavior, it's a cultrual thing, to them it's normal behavior, like fighting over things with unsheathed claws. Something normal to them, but to Twig, a TC cat, it's horrifying.
The other issue was Tigerheart, who upped and left his clan when they needed him the most. And also Rowanstar trying too hard to prove himself, to the point he'd fight over a scrap of rabbit. It's a domino effect.
Another thing to note is that prior to when Rowanstar was leader, Scorchfur has no problem with him. Most cats didn't. It wasn't until things started going downhill that they did. Like the apprentices going unpunished. Or when Rowanstar left rogues to hunt on their lands. And then Rowanstar not visibly helping with contributing with the clan after the sickness. Another thing is that Scorchfur has two litters since Rowan became leader. He had the first in BrS, and then again during all of these issues. He didn't just have himself to look after, but his mates, and his family, he wanted a place safe for them, and wanted a strong leadership. Both Yarrowleaf and Snowbird became sick during the epidemic, and while Snowbird had kits during Darktail's rule, she was vulnerable. Its obvious Scorchfur is a fiercely loyal cat, but only when he sees a leader as strong and respectable, but he also puts his family before that.
When it comes to Beenose, he was happy to see her again despite her death, but also relieved that Berryheart and Yarrowleaf weren't dead either. A lot of cats died, and some are stated to just straight up go missing. So Scorchfur honestly didn't know what happened to Beenose until that point. And then when he found out she passed, he still isn't aware of how she died, she never told him. They can only assume. Prior to that, all they knew was that Snowbird tried to convince them to escape, but they never showed up at ThunderClan. Berryheart made it, surprisingly, but not Beenose.
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