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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2017 18:50:28 GMT -5
About the warriors series?
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Post by Tas on Sept 21, 2017 18:55:26 GMT -5
the cats, the location, the plot, the writing, the characters, and the prose.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2017 19:00:55 GMT -5
How about we tone down the edgy meter a bit? Rusty! tho do you mean from the fandom or from the writers? If you mean from the writers I get that cause like... Sandstorm and Fireheart seem so real but he talked to Spottedleaf like three times and yet the books describe it like they were mates for eight years or something.
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Rainbow
Rusty!
Certified himbo
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Post by Rusty! on Sept 21, 2017 19:04:50 GMT -5
How about we tone down the edgy meter a bit? Rusty! tho do you mean from the fandom or from the writers? If you mean from the writers I get that cause like... Sandstorm and Fireheart seem so real but he talked to Spottedleaf like three times and yet the books describe it like they were mates for eight years or something. The writers, for sure. The fandom is a whole different story. A bunch of the character ships are actually good in the books, but a lot of them seem too forced to hold my interest.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2017 19:13:34 GMT -5
I don't like how the Erins kill characters off screen.
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Post by Lady of the Emblem on Sept 21, 2017 19:16:48 GMT -5
The way the erins treat their characters. they either push most of them aside in favor of "main" characters...or they ruin one character to favor another one (such as what happened to bumblestripe just for the sake of dovextiger). then you have the worst thing they could do in what they did to dovewing. they waste books such as tigerheart's shadow not doing anything but ruin dovewing even more and contradict so much!!!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2017 19:19:46 GMT -5
The way the erins treat their characters. they either push most of them aside in favor of "main" characters...or they ruin one character to favor another one (such as what happened to bumblestripe just for the sake of dovextiger). then you have the worst thing they could do in what they did to dovewing. they waste books such as tigerheart's shadow not doing anything but ruin dovewing even more and contradict so much!!! How did THS ruin Dovewing?
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Post by Basement Cat on Sept 21, 2017 19:32:36 GMT -5
I think I dislike the author bias the most, and the flimsy excuses they give. As well, I really dislike when characters who could be utilized well are badly written or killed off. Hollowflight had so much potential, as did Flametail and Cinderheart, but they're given unsatisfactory endings or kicked aside. Hollyleaf is plain written out because the Erins couldn't write for her, and Leafpool, compared to the cats who have been punished gets temporary ban, while Mapleshade becomes a poorly thought out villain, Yellowfang ends up having to kill her demon spawn, Mothflight makes a silly decision to ban medicine cats from having kits or a mate, and Silverstream dies. Interestingly enough, Kate just loves Leafpool. And bringing Cinderpelt back in that 'Cinderheart is possessed' side plot. I'm fully aware Vicky was going though some things, but if you are going to dedicate a character to your real life issues, then make sure their story is interesting. If I wanted soap opera drama I'd watch the soap channel. Not to mention that Ashfur goes to StarClan, when he clearly deserves the Dark Forest, and we're given a pitiful excuse for why.
If you are an author, you should be able to write without putting what you want first. If it fits to kill your favorite character off, kill them off. Absolutely no reader likes a cheap cop out.
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Asexual
Mayflower
I am a Daisy and Ferncloud stan first, and a human being second
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Post by Mayflower on Sept 21, 2017 19:44:22 GMT -5
Like others, how biased the Erins are...besides the issue with stuff like Leafpool (getting her rank back) or how most of Firestar and/or Tigerstar's kin (don't get me started on Tigerheart!) are basically overlords, I'd really like to see some younger, new characters get attention, like how Harestar rose to leadership. I want to see that in ThunderClan -- for all the Clans, really, rather than them recycle the same characters.
For a brief stint, we had Crowfrost, but then they killed him off in favor of Tigerheart, who had already had the spotlight in Omen of the Stars. Sure, it was shared with Dovewing by just being her love interest/being in the Dark Forest/suddenly being ShadowClan's spy (wat? so out of nowhere, with no hints to that, but ok), but we were introduced to him in Power of Three, when he also helped Holly, Jay, and Lion create that fake omen for ShadowClan. He's been seen and dealt with already, so we didn't need more of him. I wish another somewhat unknown cat had become deputy of ShadowClan...when (if? lol) Mistystar kicks the bucket sometime, I assume Reedwhisker will choose someone unknown, since I can't think of any noteworthy RiverClan cats...mostly 'cause the Erins have made them basically MIA most of the time, but meh. There were so many potential cats killed off in ThunderClan, between The Last Hope and Bramblestar's Storm. The worst part? I can barely remember any of their names because they were so irrelevant. It kinda sucks, because I liked a few of them, like Icecloud and Foxleap, from the very little that we saw. It'd have been great for the most senior warriors in TC to be down to the cats who grew up with Lionblaze, Hollyleaf, and Jayfeather -- so Berrynose, Poppyfrost, Cinderheart, and Mousewhisker, and those above them either kick the bucket or retire.
TLDR; the lost potential for some characters is the most irritating thing to me!
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Sept 21, 2017 19:50:39 GMT -5
The author bias is what annoys me the most, as well as the inconsistencies.
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Post by Lady of the Emblem on Sept 21, 2017 21:10:21 GMT -5
The way the erins treat their characters. they either push most of them aside in favor of "main" characters...or they ruin one character to favor another one (such as what happened to bumblestripe just for the sake of dovextiger). then you have the worst thing they could do in what they did to dovewing. they waste books such as tigerheart's shadow not doing anything but ruin dovewing even more and contradict so much!!! How did THS ruin Dovewing? anything to do with dovextiger ruins dovewing. she was doing fine without him but dovextiger is shoved in our faces in AVOS.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Sept 21, 2017 22:04:05 GMT -5
Author Bias, so cringy Romance taking too much of the plot up Awful characters getting SE's Some of the names peeve me off Too many characters, little personality Writing style has gotten worse over the years The inconsistencies with some plots and characters Authors thinking their inconsistencies are actually a good thing The fandom babying horribly characters like Lionblaze and Crowfeather The low key of sexism and normalize xenophobia Incredibly old cats making it to leadership??? "Dark brown tabby tom with broad shoulders"
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Post by gonxkillua on Sept 21, 2017 22:11:38 GMT -5
Why do you hate Lionblaze?
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Sept 21, 2017 23:06:34 GMT -5
Why do you hate Lionblaze? Out of the three, I found him to be the least interesting, the same goes for Tigerheart when it comes to Tawnypelt's kits, my feelings are pretty much the same for both of them. - He's a hypocrite, he demanded the DF trainees be punished and wanted to know their names, trying to force Ivypool to tell him, despite the fact he also trained there before, and knows what it's like
- His accusations against Heathertail, thinking she told everyone about the tunnels just because she was angry?? He had the gal to say this despite her accepting the fact that he chose his clan over her already.
- He blamed Heathertail for the entire all out four way war, and then even blamed Hollyleaf's "death" on her, glaring at her so much at a gathering that she felt his eyes on her and felt uncomfortable
- He dreamed about Heathertail dying, thinking she deserved it, the first time, there's no denying that, the second is debatable, but it happened period.
- The fact that he dragged her away, pinned her down, sunk his claws into her, torturing her while demanding answers, almost killing her mentor, Crowfeather out of fury, and then whispering into her ear during the eclipse that they'd be enemies forever, smh
- Again, a hypocrite, when he stole herbs from WindClan, using the tunnels, and then almost killed Heathertail, there is no denying it when both of them acknowledged he almost did
- His on and off relationship with Cinderheart was bloody annoying, he's an MC, and he gets one of the most rushed, cringy romances in the books, even HeatherLion was more developed.
- The fact that he actually wanted to make Flametail's life ebb away like he made Russetfur's, just because Flametail annoyed him, despite the fact he once considered him kin, also ignoring the fact that he's a medicine cat
- He's done some really dumb things like crossing borders, picking fights, over prey and to prove a point, a dumb one.
- He's hot headed, has the least development out of the three, Jayfeather in the middle, and Hollyleaf having the most.
- From day one as a kit, he almost got Jayfeather killed by thinking it's a good idea to lead them out of camp and run into foxes, ah yes let me take my brother out, who's blind, and I should know better since we're old enough to be apprentices soon at least, even though we most definitely know we're not allowed out of camp
- Bringing up Heathertail again, because friendly reminder, he was breaking the code by seeing her almost every night
- He thought it was a good idea to train with the cat that almost ruined the clans and the other cat that tried to kill his father, like??
- He, and Jayfeather, forced Dovewing not to tell anyone about her powers, even her sister, making her lie to Ivypool and that led to so much unnecessary drama.
- But then turns around, again hypocrite, and tells Cinderheart everything, about her powers, etc, lmao okay then.
- Did I mention how sudden his feelings for her was? Literally came like, out of no where. Like the Erins were like, okay scrap LionHeather, but he still needs a love interest, give him Cinderheart.
- Lionblaze literally had better things to be doing then chasing after her like a fool and getting into border fights because love and destiny crap.
- Speaking of that border skirmish, what if he had died?? Then lol there goes the three prophecy and the clans.
- His power led him to being battle hungry, and now that it's gone, he's nothing but a reckless hot headed lump of fur.
- What the heck was even up with his power?????????
- If he becomes deputy I'm gonna gag.
When it comes down to it, he's a careless, hot headed, hypocritical, reckless, boring, character that thought about brutally murdering several cats, with an op power with no apparent limits unless he wills it himself, what?? And puts his mate and brother under a lot of stress because he wants to act like an idiot. But its okay, because to the fandom he's just a dorky tom, and he can get away with everything because of that.
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Post by Lightflame on Sept 21, 2017 23:28:35 GMT -5
The lack of aliens.
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Post by Alpha on Sept 22, 2017 7:07:22 GMT -5
- Author bias. It lowers the quality of the books and actually sometimes causes inconsistencies. - Then, the inconsistencies in the world. - The themes and messages are just kinda weird sometimes?? All that time spent enforcing the Warrior code on random loners in TS. - The filler - Poor pacing - Boring MCs
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Asexual
Mayflower
I am a Daisy and Ferncloud stan first, and a human being second
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Post by Mayflower on Sept 22, 2017 9:14:06 GMT -5
- He's a hypocrite, he demanded the DF trainees be punished and wanted to know their names, trying to force Ivypool to tell him, despite the fact he also trained there before, and knows what it's like
- He, and Jayfeather, forced Dovewing not to tell anyone about her powers, even her sister, making her lie to Ivypool and that led to so much unnecessary drama.
- But then turns around, again hypocrite, and tells Cinderheart everything, about her powers, etc, lmao okay then.
How had I totally forgotten these three things?! Your whole list is accurate, but holy crap, I was so angry when I read these parts that I wanted to throw my book. He was so rough with Ivy, who was an apprentice at the time (and even later!) Rereading the series, I'm at the scene where he spat, "And you believed them?" at her when she said her reasons for joining the Dark Forest. Not to mention Lion was no help with Dove and Ivy's relationship, what with always pulling her away from Ivy when they were trying to talk. Ivy was already jealous of Dove, too, but Lion really did make it way worse. He and Jay had so much expectations placed on Dove, who was a child at the time, and forbid her from talking to the one cat -- her sister and best friend -- who could give her comfort. It's not as though they were emotionally available to talk about this, either...whenever Dove tried to talk about it, they always waved her off, with Jay under the guise of being "busy" and not wanting to listen to her whine, while Lion was too busy scolding her for having apparently having the nerve or whatever to be concerned about the cats she traveled with on the journey. Her being scolded by Whitetail had more impact on her than Lion's terrible mentoring! He and Jay being all "We handled it fine when we were younger, so you should, too. Also, be our ears to everything and we forbid you from telling your best friend this massive secret, and we'll make it worse by pulling you away constantly while ignoring Ivy until she's useful to us later while we also attack her for trying to find comfort in a cat -- Hawkfrost -- who actually listens to her and makes her feel important" was a huge catalyst to so many problems with Dove and why Dove sought comfort in Tiger. Them and Holly talked and comforted each other all the time about the prophecy, but nope -- can't let Dove do that, because drammmaaaa. Jay and Lion were a massive part of the reason why Dove and Ivy's relationship was so terrible. Sorry for the rant. I'd forgotten why Jay and Lion were my least favorite of the siblings.
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Post by Darkfang ☾ on Sept 22, 2017 11:12:33 GMT -5
like many have said, author bias. Particularly - Ashfur in StarClan - Cinderpelt's reincarnation - Firestar's kin taking most of the spotlight
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Post by kinkajou on Sept 22, 2017 14:48:03 GMT -5
Greencough
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2017 14:54:53 GMT -5
everything
The amount of mistakes/errors in the series. Yes, there are a lot of characters. I know the series is not going to be perfect. But the timeline for the period where Bluestar's Prophecy, Crookedstar's Promise, and Tallstar's Revenge all take place is confusing due to continuity mistakes.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Sept 22, 2017 15:02:17 GMT -5
What's wrong with Cinderpelt's reincarnation and greenchough?? The problem with the Cinderpelt thing is that it's not even reincarnation—it's possession, and a pointless one at that since it didn't even affect the story that much except to stir up drama. It was poorly handled, and Cinderpelt being given a "second chance" just because of author favoritism doesn't help either. As for greencough, the problem with that is that many cats die offscreen because of it. Before, it was treated as an actual threat. Now it's treated as a quick way to kill cats off.
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Post by Kibui on Sept 22, 2017 15:25:38 GMT -5
Cinderheart's """reincarnation""" was bad. I wouldn't have minded if they kept it vague like Kate said once, but what happened there was definitely not reincarnation and if anything it made Cinderpelt getting a second chance pointless.
But mainly my only real issue are the current editors not getting their s* together. Seriously. I absolutely understand that it wasn't planned for this universe to expand this much and even if all this had been planned out before the release of the first series I could understand if there's a few inconsistencies and mistakes - that's inevitable, especially if you got a whole team working on the books. But the fact that they don't listen to the author's they work with and fail to give them vital information so that the authors barely know what happens in the books before and after theirs is just.. mind boggling
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Asexual
Mayflower
I am a Daisy and Ferncloud stan first, and a human being second
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Post by Mayflower on Sept 22, 2017 16:07:15 GMT -5
Ohh, yeah...the editors seriously annoy me, too. On Kate's blog, she said she wanted Sparkpelt's name to be Sparkfire, but they shot that down. She also wanted a fresher face for WindClan's deputy, I think, and wanted a she-cat, but the editors were fighting her on it, so we got Crowfeather because of them (who she doesn't like). Back when they posted the Allegiances, the fans made her aware that the name Ambermoon made no sense concerning the rules of their world, and also mentioned a few other mistakes. She tried to correct them, but again, the editors shot her down. I don't know why they aren't listening to the authors.
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Post by Alpha on Sept 23, 2017 1:00:52 GMT -5
Ohh, yeah...the editors seriously annoy me, too. On Kate's blog, she said she wanted Sparkpelt's name to be Sparkfire, but they shot that down. She also wanted a fresher face for WindClan's deputy, I think, and wanted a she-cat, but the editors were fighting her on it, so we got Crowfeather because of them (who she doesn't like). Back when they posted the Allegiances, the fans made her aware that the name Ambermoon made no sense concerning the rules of their world, and also mentioned a few other mistakes. She tried to correct them, but again, the editors shot her down. I don't know why they aren't listening to the authors. Yeah, and apparently the editors are insisting that Beetlewhisker be in the series despite being dead.
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Post by Leafshine on Sept 23, 2017 8:40:53 GMT -5
• Reincarnation
• the clans being descendants from the mountain and ancient cats at the lake
• Author favoritism
• Main characters breaking the warrior code constantly without being punished
• the territory at the lake
• Journeying story's (except for HJ)
• time skip's
• Underdeveloped couples, too much romance, kittens, forbidden romance and useless background cats without personality
• Cats dying too quickly
• monarchy style, for example Firestars kin picking up all high ranks and attention, at the moment there are three medicine cats related to Firestar. His grandkits have a point of view in every arc
In ShadowClan: Rowanstar and Tigerheart, leader and deputy, who are father and son.
In RiverClan: Mistystar and Reedwhisker, leader and deputy, who are mother and son.
In WindClan Onestar and Harespring, who is now Harestar, the relations between them are unknown. Harespring could be Onestar's son. Now Crowfeather is deputy, both his parents, Ashfoot and Deadfoot were deputy's as well. If Crow becomes leader, Breezepelt is the next deputy i guess.
• cats who disappear from the books (Spiderleg, Rockshade, Creekfeather, Petalnose, Egg and Shrewtooth)
• inconsistencies
• incorrect cat genetics
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Post by Darkfang ☾ on Sept 23, 2017 9:44:40 GMT -5
What's wrong with Cinderpelt's reincarnation and greenchough?? I personally just didn't like the reincarnation. It felt unrealistic - I know warriors isn't meant to be realistic but StarClan interfering in real cats lives felt like a step too far. It also made me question the whole idea behind warriors and StarClan. If StarClan really has the powder to bring cats back to life, why don't they just bring everyone back? So many cats didn't get to live the lives they wanted but never got a second chance. Therefore it just feels like author bias.
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Holly Snow
My full names are Hollyleaf;) and Snowwing™
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Post by Holly Snow on Sept 23, 2017 13:30:22 GMT -5
What's wrong with Cinderpelt's reincarnation and greenchough?? I personally just didn't like the reincarnation. It felt unrealistic - I know warriors isn't meant to be realistic but StarClan interfering in real cats lives felt like a step too far. It also made me question the whole idea behind warriors and StarClan. If StarClan really has the powder to bring cats back to life, why don't they just bring everyone back? So many cats didn't get to live the lives they wanted but never got a second chance. Therefore it just feels like author bias. It feels like author bias because it is author bias. Its not like its a secret that cinderpelt is picky's author insert.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Sept 23, 2017 14:02:17 GMT -5
It doesn't really seem like bias to me. It doesn't really seem like a second chance at all, you know? I was about thirteen last I read OOTS warriors and I didn't get through the whole series, but from what I remember Chinderheart never knew she was Cinderpelt so how could she have a second chance? If you don't know you suffered the last life and get to live a better life now, then you don't recognize the chance you're given and it's just a waste. When it comes to the concept of reincarnation in general, you usually don't remember your past life at all. Cinderheart found out she was Cinderpelt, but only after she found out through Jayfeather. In the end, it turned out to be only possession. And Cinderpelt was one of Vicky's favorite characters, so that's where to author bias argument comes in.
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