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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 22:24:51 GMT -5
Why did Flametail blame Jayfeather for not saving him? He saw Rock tell him to let him go himself. He knows that Jayfeather was trying to save him. Did he just blame Jayfeather because he was embarrassed at his own death? Yes, I do know that this happened because of bad writing too, though. Anyway, it's one of the reasons why I never liked him, also because he bullied Lionblaze too for killing Russetfur.
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Post by kinkajou on Jul 25, 2017 22:56:19 GMT -5
Inconsistency. They probably forgot about that
My headcanon is that he wasnt initially mad at jayfeather, but then seeing how awful starclan was then and he left his clan and family for this, made him grow angry at both jay and rock. or something
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Post by Jaysnow on Jul 25, 2017 23:10:03 GMT -5
Inconsistency. They probably forgot about that My headcanon is that he wasnt initially mad at jayfeather, but then seeing how awful starclan was then and he left his clan and family for this, made him grow angry at both jay and rock. or something You gave a really good explanation for real life reason and storyline reason. Well said.
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Post by snowfoot on Jul 26, 2017 2:30:38 GMT -5
I always hated the bitterness Flametail had. Rock literally said that it was Flametails time to die and if any cat should understand that concept surely it would be a medicine cat? I always felt like Flametail's character was a huge waste of potential.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jul 26, 2017 10:28:52 GMT -5
Bullied Lionblaze?
No...he didn't. He was angry at Lionblaze, just like the rest of his Clan. And he made that clear, also it's Lionblaze who was bullying other cats, using his abilities to intimade them. Even cats like Ratscar were scared of him, what do you expect when an unbeatable cat is running around in other cat's blood? Also Lionblaze literally thinks about wanting to kill Flametail like he did Russetfur, like??
Flametail's actions after death are also inconsistent, and he's even cool with Jayfeather in one instant, although that could have been him pretending, which I would prefer. Also whether Flametail could see Rock or not, it debatable considering the only one that could see him around then was Jayfeather, no other cats were noted to be able to see him.
With that being said, Flametail being bitter is one of the most understandable feelings I've ever seen in a character tbh.
First, the deputy, that many in his clan admired, is "murdered", as far as they see it, in a battle instigated by ThunderClan. A deputy they had for moons, and it obviously took a toll on their clan.
Next his own father becomes deputy, but when he has a vision, no one believes him, not his father, his leader, or his own mentor, how can he be a medicine cat when they don't take him seriously?
Raggedstar literally tells him that ShadowClan must stand alone, how do you think this would make him feel if his warrior ancestors were telling him this? Remember Jayfeather and Yellowfang when she told him something similar?
Fast forward and then you have Flametail, living his life, he's still a young cat, and he finally gets a break from helping heal his clanmates, only for him to fall into the ice. Just because he had dreams about it, doesn't mean he'd understand them, doesn't mean he'd realize they were warnings of his death.
Rock is a jerk, and ya should already know this by now, he literally blamed the three for the entire war that happened between DF and StarClan, he's one of the most obnoxiously rude cats in the afterlife, next to Yellowfang. Who blames everyone else but himself, even if he tries to come off as ancient and wise. Lionblaze proves in the series that he could change his destiny, why couldn't Flametail's be changed too?
Jayfeather, to Flametail, whether he could see Rock or not, DID let go of Flametail, which inevitably led to Flametail's demise. Jayfeather was Flametail's last hope of living, and then even Jayfeather let him go, and he drowned. If I were in Flametail's position, Istg I would feel hurt too, and bitter. No lie. You're young, you have a promising career, and then one of your fellow medical students let you go and you eventually drown, even though in your heart you were hoping, praying you'd live, that they'd save you, but they let you go. Don't lie, I know most of you would be bitter too.
A friendly reminder that Flametail considered Jayfeather to be his kin, and was actually happy about it. Even Lionblaze was sad when he remembered he used to consider them as kin before the secret got out.
Now following being dead, he got lost and wondered into kitty cat hell, because apparently no cat was guiding him, he also almost got killed too, by Ivypool and Brokenstar. When he makes it back to StarClan, they're in a state of crisis, acting like a bunch of kits, putting up borders and being divided, everything is chaotic. Flametail died at such a horrible time tbh...especially when his clan needed him most. In fact so much problems in AVoS could have been avoided if he was still alive, and poor Littlecloud wouldn't have to suffer, he could have retired peacefully like he deserved for his many moons of service. Also btw drowning is literally one of the biggest nightmares of the warrior cats, even RiverClan cats can drown. As someone who's almost drowned and ended up in the hospital for it, it's a horrible experience. You feel trapped, even though their's water around you, you struggle, to no avail, you see the light at the surface and try to swim to it but you keep sinking. You feel water fill up your mouth and your lungs, and your eyes strain, your chest burns, and then you vision gets hazy and you black out. You either wake up in a hospital or you don't wake up at all. In Flametail's case, the latter.
Even if Rock claimed it was Flametail's time to die, why does that mean Flametail had to role over and accept it? Look at Silverstream, she's shown sadness over her death because she's unable to live with Graystripe and their kits even if she does accept it. Spottedleaf doesn't actually accept her death and being able to be with Firestar for quite a while, until he actually talks to her about it. Death and acceptance are two things that don't always go hand in hand, when you die you either accept it or you don't, because you're unable to.
In Flametail's case, although inconsistent, he was unable to accept it. Dying young is never easy to accept. Flametail was angry, bitter, upset, embarrassed, all of the above, over his death, and he was unable to accept it. He blamed it on Jayfeather, and possibly Rock if he could see him, because of those feelings. And even if it's morally wrong, objectively Flametail didn't have to help Jayfeather. Just like he didn't have to help him the other way around. What if it was Jayfeather's time to die? And he didn't know it? Just like how Flametail didn't know it was apparently "time" for him to die?
Even with all that being said, Flametail did help Jayfeather in the end, you all make it seem like he's the one that was intentionally drowning Jayfeather by force, when he didn't. Some dumb youth was doing dumb things, just like Flametail was doing when he was alive. If anything they seem to parallel one another. If it weren't for Flametail, Jayfeather would have actually drowned, and if it weren't for Flametail, he would have still be accused of murder, the clans would still be strained and independent during a crisis.
In the end Flametail did realize what he did was wrong, he did help Jayfeather and even thanked him for making him realize his purpose in life.
Which is why I'm still bitter that he wasn't the fourth cat, when he should have been.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2017 12:15:49 GMT -5
Honestly the whole situation was just awful and poorly written. I never liked Flametail but he didn't deserve to die for the sake of drama. Thanks to the Erins ShadowClan had to suffer a lot, especially poor Littlecloud who recently died, and an inexperienced cat who never even wanted to be a medicine cat hardly had a chance of a proper childhood, instead Leafpool had to train Puddleshine. I wish the Erins just kept Flametail alive, he was a good medicine cat despite his arrogance, he was strong and healthy and had so many years stretched ahead of him. This situation out of all in OotS upset me the most.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jul 26, 2017 13:14:01 GMT -5
But you know the Erins, they like to kill of good character for the sake of main character drama; Honeyfern for example, smh.
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Post by whiteflight on Jul 26, 2017 15:56:05 GMT -5
I'm alright with Flametail he was an alright medicine cat, the thing I hate about him was that he was going to let Jayfeather die in Starclan just because he hated how he died. He would have doomed the clans if Jayfeather died and 100% if I was a cat in Starclan and heard that he didn't help Jayfeather I would blame him.
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