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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2016 15:28:26 GMT -5
I'm really curious, but, let's go way back to the first series.
Did RiverClan deserve the Sunningrocks, or ThunderClan?
LET US DEBATE.
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❆αυяσяα
remember that scene from up with the old man? Yeah. Sad.
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Post by ❆αυяσяα on Aug 6, 2016 16:51:46 GMT -5
riverclan tbh, just bc I'm fed up of thunderclans sh-
(you know what i mean...)
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Post by Bluebell on Aug 6, 2016 18:18:49 GMT -5
It was originally RiverClan's and the only reason ThunderClan felt any claim on it was because a river changed course a little. So definitely RiverClan.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Aug 6, 2016 18:36:22 GMT -5
Well, RiverClan had it first and ThunderClan only took it because the river vhanged. However, if I recall correctly, RiverClan also uses Sunningrocks to mostly sunbathe whereas ThunderClan uses it to hunt.
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Post by echoheart on Aug 6, 2016 20:04:34 GMT -5
Riverclan deserved it, my opinion is not biased. Riverclan had it first, but when there was a land path, Thunderclan suddenly decides to take it?
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Post by Cloudshadow on Aug 7, 2016 0:04:22 GMT -5
Well, RiverClan did have it first but ThunderClan feeling they can lay claim to it due to the river changing course also makes sense. It splits the territories easier. If the RiverClan cats had to swim across to ThunderClan's side of the river it would feel like RiverClan is invading their space/side of the river. To solve that feeling of insecurity it makes perfect sense for TC to take Sunning Rocks
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Post by Cloverfrost on Aug 7, 2016 2:19:58 GMT -5
Well, RiverClan did have it first but ThunderClan feeling they can lay claim to it due to the river changing course also makes sense. It splits the territories easier. If the RiverClan cats had to swim across to ThunderClan's side of the river it would feel like RiverClan is invading their space/side of the river. To solve that feeling of insecurity it makes perfect sense for TC to take Sunning Rocks I agree, and as Mothflight said, ThunderClan uses it to hunt, so I guess their need is greater? But then again in the original series RiverClan has a lot of issues with prey so I suppose from a moral point of view they should have had it. It might've fixed the whole issue when Fireheart and Greystripe felt like they had to hunt for them due to the poisoning of the river. However, I've always had an issue with the word 'deserve'. What does it mean? Does anyone actually deserve anything? How do you define that? Other than that, I think Sunningrocks should be TC-owned, due to the redirection of the river. But that might just be my ThunderClan bias coming through
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2016 11:32:35 GMT -5
Well, it depends on what the question is. Technically, ThunderClan "deserves" it because they need it more than RiverClan. ThunderClan has historically struggled during leaf-bare and often Sunningrocks has been what has kept several cats alive during that cold time of the year. But if you were to ask who had the rights to Sunningrocks, RiverClan does, since history never said they gave permission to ThunderClan to take it once the rocks joined with ThunderClan land. ThunderClan basically just took it when the water level dropped.
But then again, it's up to people's personal opinion on whether clans have the right to take territory anyway. Most fans agree that SkyClan had the right to take territory from ThunderClan, because it was literally their last chance of survival in the forest territory. On the other hand Brokenstar driving out WindClan and taking their territory was greatly looked down upon. And then in the awkward middle-ground it's more controversial- like Crookedstar helping Nightstar try to drive out WindClan again, which was quite cruel, but at the time RiverClan was having a fish shortage and Silverstream said it was getting as bad as the possibility of kits dying soon.
So again, do ThunderClan deserve Sunningrocks? Probably, but who has the rights to Sunningrocks? Technically RiverClan, who had the territory taken from them in the first place. So it's a controversial subject that depends a lot on people's personal opinion.
What do I think? I think that RiverClan have the rights to Sunningrocks, but ThunderClan also have the right to take it if they need it to survive. So I think it's simply a piece of land that deserves to be fought over and whoever wants it the most, needs it the most, and is the strongest deserves it in the end.
So if ThunderClan can take it and successfully protect it, then they deserve it because they fought for it and is strong enough to support it. But if RiverClan successfully take it from them, then RiverClan deserve to keep it, because they are strong enough to keep it. I don't think just one clan should have kept it the other clan kept away, because that's not how the clans work. They aren't like countries- territories aren't protected strictly by world laws. They are constantly shifting according to the strength and capability of the clans and the amount of territory they can handle.
So really, I don't think Sunningrocks should have one permanent owner. Sunningrocks deserves the owner that is willing to fight the hardest for them- and that owner may change over time, just like when it was swapped back and forth between RiverClan and ThunderClan.
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Post by duskpaw on Aug 7, 2016 11:35:31 GMT -5
riverclan had it first, therefore it is rightfully theirs. although thunderclan does use it to hunt while riverclan uses it to sunbathe...
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Post by Bluebell on Aug 7, 2016 17:59:21 GMT -5
If it came down to it RiverClan would've probably hunted there as well since their over-reliance on fish has been one of their greatest weakness.
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Post by GhibliQueen on Aug 7, 2016 19:13:08 GMT -5
RiverClan. Simply because it was originally theirs. It doesn't matter what they used it for, in my opinion. Of course, new territories and all that, this is not a problem anymore.
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Post by Twilight Sparkle on Aug 8, 2016 14:15:46 GMT -5
Well, I think ThunderClan should have it mostly because hunting is more important than sunbathing.
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Post by Hollypetal on Aug 8, 2016 17:09:41 GMT -5
river clan had it fist so they should keep it
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 23:44:39 GMT -5
Riverclan had them first. However, the river did change its course after a flood, and afterwards, it was connected to Thunderclan territory. Before, Riverclan owned them because they were they only ones willing and able to swim to them. If only they would have agreed to share the Sunningrocks, make them neutral territory or something, a lot of death and bloodshed could have been avoided. There is no rule in the Warrior Code that states that only the gathering place, (Fourtrees/Island) can be the only neutral ground. But they didn't. Both clans had rightful claim to it. In a way, the Sunningrocks belonged to both clans. However, Riverclan had them first, and I'm fed up with Thunderclan, so I say they were rightfully Riverclan's.
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Post by starcat on Aug 15, 2016 2:11:21 GMT -5
It should belong to whoever's territory it's attached to. Originally, it was Riverclan, then the river changed, and it was bordering thunderclan turf, so it should be theirs. Otherwise, make it neutral territory, usable by both.
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Post by Aku on Sept 13, 2016 22:24:31 GMT -5
I think that RiverClan and ThunderClan should share the bit of territory. It could have saved so many lives had they decided to have done that rather than constantly fighting back and forth for it.
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Post by theRavenflight on Sept 16, 2016 12:47:29 GMT -5
*cracks knuckles*
I think they belong to RiverClan. They had them originally, and even if the river changed its course and made sunningrocks accessible by land, it should still belong to RiverClan. I'm sorry but I feel like ThunderClan was just like "hey we can't swim but we can walk! Since we can now walk to Sunningrocks, they are now ours" which is not fair. RiverClan for life and Oakheart and Redtail didn't deserve to die
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2016 23:50:37 GMT -5
River
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2016 8:18:29 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2016 8:08:28 GMT -5
Rc because Im done eith tc's cr-
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2016 15:29:13 GMT -5
❈ -- ThunderClan had the forest to hunt. Besides, it's not like they used the river to hunt anyways. So in the winter, RiverClan's main prey source was gone while ThunderClan had an entire forest. It wasn't like SkyClan either where there were a bunch of Twolegs trying to drive them out. greedy thunderclan. wants everything to themselves
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2016 15:31:41 GMT -5
❈ -- RiverClan can swim... that's what they're famous for. It was theirs in the first place. Besides, what's your reasoning for that?
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Post by Owlmoon on Dec 11, 2016 13:52:50 GMT -5
I think ThunderClan has right to it. Even though it was not theirs at first, RiverClan has to swim across to the ThunderClan side of the River.That would make me quite a bit suspicious. Also, hunting at Sunningrocks is far better use for it then just sunning yourself.
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Post by Owlmoon on Jan 7, 2017 18:27:34 GMT -5
I say ThunderClan only because they actually use it for something else other than basking.....
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Post by Alpha on Jan 8, 2017 8:45:51 GMT -5
ThunderClan. It makes boundaries clearer.
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Post by wheeledwarrior on Jan 8, 2017 15:54:41 GMT -5
This is a tough one... On one hand, it was originally Riverclan’s, but once the rocks became a part of Thunderclan’s territory, they had a right to it too... I have a feeling it's not so much who uses it for when so much as whose territory it’s on, and it was on both their territories… Hence the bloodshed… The best way, as several others have pointed out, would have meant love them both have it, but Clans being Clans, I doubt that would happen…
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Post by Stoneflower on Jan 8, 2017 16:09:30 GMT -5
Thundercaln. The river is the border of the two clans, sunning rocks is on the thunderclan side
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