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Post by sylveon on Apr 17, 2017 19:14:03 GMT -5
I was thinking about how in Long Shadows Jayfeather goes to the Ancients, the trees around the lake are described as being smaller and younger than usual. And if the Clans has had generations of warriors, they've obviously been around for a long time. I always imagined 100 or so years, with SkyClan vanishing a good 20-30ish before Firestar visits the forest. Does anyone have any ideas, or if it's been discussed? (Keep in mind I've never read DOTC, so if it's talked about please tell me! I'm curious!)
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Bisexual
Snowfire
Pronouns: She/Her or They/Them
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Post by Snowfire on Apr 19, 2017 5:33:39 GMT -5
I thought it was around 70 years, and SkyClan left 20 years before Bluestar was born. I could be mistaken though.
But like to imagine that the Clans have been around for much longer than they really have though, because it feels like they haven't REALLY been around long.
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Post by Jei-Dinofelini on Apr 19, 2017 14:32:47 GMT -5
70 years seems a bit too short of a time.
Cats have lived for millions of years. I like to think that the clans have lived at least few centuries. Around 20 years is a bit too short to even forget anything. But since its all in cat years etc... Things do seem longer than really are....
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Bisexual
Snowfire
Pronouns: She/Her or They/Them
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Post by Snowfire on Apr 19, 2017 15:08:48 GMT -5
Oh, so I'm not the only one who imagines that it's been some centuries! I agree that 70-90 years (somewhere around there) seems so short.
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Post by sylveon on Apr 19, 2017 18:54:09 GMT -5
I'm glad people agree too!! I was taking a stretch with a 100 years, since I think I remember reading about monsters in DOTC, i wasn't so sure? I also think there'd have to be a huge gap in skyclan's disappearance, seeing as leaders tend to live to be around 10 years old, 20 years would be 2-3 leader life times, and we've seen cats who've been alive for more than one leadership. (Sandstorm, for example, was born under Bluestar, lived under Firestar for a good amount of time, and then died under Bramblestar)
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Post by fossilfueds on Apr 22, 2017 9:43:09 GMT -5
I actually did some Cat Math on this a little while ago and put clan history at about ~120 years (as in, Jay's Wing existed 120 years ago, with the ancients living at the lake territories long before this). With the development of the human settlements in the forest territories this number does make some sense.
I have the notes somewhere if anyone is interested, but it's pretty much based on a "generation" of cats lasting 7-8 years (as in, 7-8 years being the average lifespan of a leader), how many leaders we know of in ThunderClan and how long they actually were leader for, plus some leeway for periods of time we know nothing about. Given the average lifespan of cats in Warriors being about 5 years, 120 is a bigger number than it looks.
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Post by Random on Apr 22, 2017 9:56:53 GMT -5
I would say it is a bit confusing. When Jay's feather (jayfeather) is helping create the tribe of rushing water I remember one of the cats talking about the dangers of monsters which means that it is 100 years in the past at most it is hard to belive that they would forget skyclan in 20-50 years the only way to make this realistic is to assume it is in the 2050-2100s
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Post by Owlmoon on Apr 23, 2017 17:11:16 GMT -5
Hmm....I would think...maybe 200? Think of Dawn of the Clans compared to modern Clans. Now think of all of the stories in between we've heard.
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Post by Random on Apr 23, 2017 20:15:48 GMT -5
Okey so modern is in 2120.
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Post by Amber on Apr 24, 2017 17:40:49 GMT -5
I think anywhere between 70-80 years. We have to keep in mind cars existed because Shaded Moss was killed by one.
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Post by fossilfueds on Apr 25, 2017 10:19:57 GMT -5
I think anywhere between 70-80 years. We have to keep in mind cars existed because Shaded Moss was killed by one. Don't exclude the possibility that modern warriors is set in our future, though, and that the cars didn't necessarily have to be modern. Motor vehicles have been on the roads since the end of the 19th century, and we don't get much indication of what the cars looked like and how modern they were. But also to keep in mind that the cats have short lifespan so while a figure like 70-80 may seem small to us, to the cats, it's the equivalent of probably around or over 50 generations (which would equate to what nearly a millennium seems like to us, roughly) So about 70 years to a century is probably the closest estimate, IMO.
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Post by Amber on Apr 26, 2017 9:47:22 GMT -5
I think anywhere between 70-80 years. We have to keep in mind cars existed because Shaded Moss was killed by one. Don't exclude the possibility that modern warriors is set in our future, though, and that the cars didn't necessarily have to be modern. Motor vehicles have been on the roads since the end of the 19th century, and we don't get much indication of what the cars looked like and how modern they were. But also to keep in mind that the cats have short lifespan so while a figure like 70-80 may seem small to us, to the cats, it's the equivalent of probably around or over 50 generations (which would equate to what nearly a millennium seems like to us, roughly) So about 70 years to a century is probably the closest estimate, IMO. Huh, never actually thought of that. I mean, the Erins never really confirmed when Warriors started and, as you mentioned, we the cars are never actually described. Besides that, we also don't know if the current series takes place in 2016/2017 or the 80's. As you mentioned, cars did exist in the late 1800's. My only concern for that would be speed of the car and who owned it because only the rich would be able to afford it. Yeah, especially when considering feral cats, from what I gathered, they can live between 3-6 years. Of course, this is Warriors and the wild cats can live up to 12 years in the series. But I agree, there would be about 50, maybe even more, generations between the start of the Clans and the current times of AVoS. Yeah, 70 years seems like a good estimate.
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Post by Random on Apr 26, 2017 19:57:50 GMT -5
for all we know it is based in 3017.
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ωαтєяsнα∂є
it is I!!! Howlingthroat/musical chairs!!!
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Post by ωαтєяsнα∂є on May 29, 2017 22:03:37 GMT -5
I always imagined anywhere between 300-500 years. I know it might sound silly, but hear me out.
The whole thing with baby Bluestar ALL the way to Alderheart in my mind took a span of like 40 years more or less. And it goes on even longer! From Sunstar to Pinestar to Doestar to Oakstar! Mapleshade was already considered forgotten and old (for some reason), pretty much forgotten in ThunderClan's stories by the time Bluestar and Thistleclaw were even born! But even Mapleshade didn't know about SkyClan. And something like a fifth Clan, even one not talked about out of shame, HAS to have been remembered for like 50 years! A clan that has been around for generations can't just be forgotten about. I know Skywatcher's mom's mom was part of the broken Clan and all but I never bought it. I mean, come on. Did they break up and just never speak of it again? EVER? Surely their pride as Clan cats wouldn't let them act like rouges and never speak of their old ways again? And kittypets live like twice as long as wild cats! I count that whole thing from SkyClan's break up to renewal as 50-60 years. Like, they broke up went Gooseberry was born or something. I believe that they DID live in that gorge for a long time! At least 25 years! (I don't care that one of the elders in the break up was born on the journey. SkyClan obviously lived there in the gorge for a while. Long enough to make claw marks on the caves.)
So even the whole thing from SkyClan's break up to introducing Rusty is about 90 years all together. And that's CURRENT! Plus the 25 ish years with Rusty to Alderheart. about 115? And naturally it would be about 50 years to forget SkyClan ever existed. so 165. the 25 years SkyClan spent in the gorge. 190. The first REAL established clans and the warrior code and ALL the battles escalated and then forgotten about. I will say another 190 just to cover all that time. so 380. The whole thing with Dawn of the Clans from baby Gray Wing to the 5 Clans being established, I'm gunna say 10. 390. Half Moon's time from baby at the lake to dead. 15 years. 405. And however long Rock and their un-clan-tribe group was established....so 30? I'ma say 30 for the small group. 435 years roughly. That is how old I believe the Clans are. Dating all the way back to their origins....
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Post by Amber on May 30, 2017 10:00:16 GMT -5
I always imagined anywhere between 300-500 years. I know it might sound silly, but hear me out. The whole thing with baby Bluestar ALL the way to Alderheart in my mind took a span of like 40 years more or less. And it goes on even longer! From Sunstar to Pinestar to Doestar to Oakstar! Mapleshade was already considered forgotten and old (for some reason), pretty much forgotten in ThunderClan's stories by the time Bluestar and Thistleclaw were even born! But even Mapleshade didn't know about SkyClan. And something like a fifth Clan, even one not talked about out of shame, HAS to have been remembered for like 50 years! A clan that has been around for generations can't just be forgotten about. I know Skywatcher's mom's mom was part of the broken Clan and all but I never bought it. I mean, come on. Did they break up and just never speak of it again? EVER? Surely their pride as Clan cats wouldn't let them act like rouges and never speak of their old ways again? And kittypets live like twice as long as wild cats! I count that whole thing from SkyClan's break up to renewal as 50-60 years. Like, they broke up went Gooseberry was born or something. I believe that they DID live in that gorge for a long time! At least 25 years! (I don't care that one of the elders in the break up was born on the journey. SkyClan obviously lived there in the gorge for a while. Long enough to make claw marks on the caves.) So even the whole thing from SkyClan's break up to introducing Rusty is about 90 years all together. And that's CURRENT! Plus the 25 ish years with Rusty to Alderheart. about 115? And naturally it would be about 50 years to forget SkyClan ever existed. so 165. the 25 years SkyClan spent in the gorge. 190. The first REAL established clans and the warrior code and ALL the battles escalated and then forgotten about. I will say another 190 just to cover all that time. so 380. The whole thing with Dawn of the Clans from baby Gray Wing to the 5 Clans being established, I'm gunna say 10. 390. Half Moon's time from baby at the lake to dead. 15 years. 405. And however long Rock and their un-clan-tribe group was established....so 30? I'ma say 30 for the small group. 435 years roughly. That is how old I believe the Clans are. Dating all the way back to their origins.... This was well-thought out and nicely written, but this theory falls apart when you look at the previous books. The time between Bluestar and Alderheart didn't take 40 years, it was about 10. By just looking at the ages of Brightheart and her siblings(On the wiki), we know it's been about 10 years since the start of the series. Besides, wild cats can't live up to 40 years. The oldest recorded cat was 38 years old and 3 days, but she was a housecat who was kept indoors unlike our wild cats. Even still, this is nicely thought out and done.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 10:47:48 GMT -5
According to the Wiki:
- SkyClan was driven out 24 years before Into the Wild - The clans have been around for at least 11 years since Into the Wild.
One of the Erins thought that SkyClan was driven out half-way between when the clans were officially formed and Into the Wild. That gives another 24 years.
That adds up to an estimated 59 years the clans have been around.
However, the Timeline on the wiki is extremely flawed, and there are many timeline mistakes in the series in general- and now that what the Erins say isn't cannon anymore the claim about SkyClan getting driven out at that time is no longer valid.
So I'd honestly give the history of the clans a buffer zone of anywhere between 70-40 years, give or take. I personally lean more to around 70 years, or maybe more, but it's really up for debate.
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ωαтєяsнα∂є
it is I!!! Howlingthroat/musical chairs!!!
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Post by ωαтєяsнα∂є on May 30, 2017 17:58:26 GMT -5
I never trust the wiki. It's just full of LIES! -3- And how can 24 years have had like 15+ leaders for each clan before Rusty even got there? SkyClan was said to have been around for MANY generations, like the rest of the Clans, back when they were being first kicked out. We have ThunderClan: Thunderstar, Owlstar, Pinestar, Sunstar, Whitestar, Finchstar, Lionstar, Vinestar, Morningstar, Redstar, Oakstar, Doestar, Bluestar, Firestar, Bramblestar RiverClan: Riverstar Emberstar Darkstar Troutstar Reedstar Ivystar Talonstar Birchstar Volestar Hailstar Crookedstar Leopardstar Mistystar ShadowClan: Shadowstar Hollystar Brindlestar Lilystar Blizzardstar Snowstar Flowerstar Ripplestar Yellowstar Dawnstar Houndstar Cedarstar Raggedstar Brokenstar Nightstar Tigerstar Blackstar Rowanstar WindClan: Windstar Gorsestar Duststar Stonestar Hazelstar Featherstar Rabbitstar Dovestar Fallowstar Birchstar Swiftstar Heatherstar Tallstar Onestar, Harestar SkyClan: Skystar Birchstar Beechstar Maplestar Dewstar Hawkstar Robinstar Rowanstar Darkstar Fennelstar Flystar Cloudstar Buzzardstar Spiderstar Leafstar And these are just the ones talked about from warrior codes stuff and storyline. I do believe there is at least 5 more leaders for each clan. and they can live 10-20 years each! Provided that they don't do anything with their lives or just constantly lose them like Pinestar and Sunstar seemed to do.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2017 12:15:29 GMT -5
I think I heard from somewhere the clans have been around for 60 years and SkyClan was banished like 20 on years before Bluestar was born.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2017 1:16:15 GMT -5
I remember reading on the Wiki that Kate said once that she imagined Turtle Tail being hit by a Ford Model T, which was produced from 1908 to 1927. So I'd say that the Clans are anywhere from 80-109 years old.
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Post by snowfoot on Jun 19, 2017 5:58:26 GMT -5
Detective of the year!! (For real though I think this would be the best way to place it. At least when you think about how long cars have been around you can come up with a decent time frame and fit cats lifetimes within that frame to come up with a more reasonable timeline)
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Coon cat
Constant vigilance!
Pronouns: She/her/she-cat
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Post by Coon cat on Jun 19, 2017 15:27:58 GMT -5
I think about an average humans lifetime, about 80ish years. Maybe a little longer though, if you include the tribe of rushing water.
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Post by Tas on Jun 26, 2017 18:26:28 GMT -5
I actually did some Cat Math on this a little while ago and put clan history at about ~120 years (as in, Jay's Wing existed 120 years ago, with the ancients living at the lake territories long before this). With the development of the human settlements in the forest territories this number does make some sense. I have the notes somewhere if anyone is interested, but it's pretty much based on a "generation" of cats lasting 7-8 years (as in, 7-8 years being the average lifespan of a leader), how many leaders we know of in ThunderClan and how long they actually were leader for, plus some leeway for periods of time we know nothing about. Given the average lifespan of cats in Warriors being about 5 years, 120 is a bigger number than it looks. A 5-year lifespan being a guess that warriors would live a lot less long than kittypets, right? What about leaders like Nightstar? And yes, I'd be interested in the notes
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Post by Tas on Jun 26, 2017 18:27:06 GMT -5
I think one of the Erins said Dawn of the Clans series takes place in 1970's Really? i mean, you never hear the kittypets describing phones or anything
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Post by Tas on Jun 26, 2017 18:40:37 GMT -5
But remember in SD when they daylight-warriors go through that backpack, explaining everything to the warriors?
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Post by iniquitous ecstasy on Jul 3, 2017 20:00:33 GMT -5
I think around the late 1910's or early 1920's because they have cars and construction equipment in Dawn of the Clans and Long Shadows.
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Post by wadevvilson on Jul 4, 2017 2:06:45 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure the Erins officially confirmed somewhere that the Clans formed in a period of 70-90 years, but then again maybe that's just my mind playing tricks on me again. But yeah, that specific time period makes the most sense when you consider a whole slew of other factors.
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Post by Flamestripe on Jul 28, 2017 20:53:10 GMT -5
I personally think the clans have been around since the 1810s or 1820s. This was during the time of the Industrial Revolution so yes, there would be these large, noisy, and smelly coal-powered machinery that need a large amount of land to operate on. Cars would have first existed in the first decade of the 1900s, but there were roads and wagons long before then so monsters could have been horse drawn wagons and carriages???
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Post by ⌭ ᑕᖇᑌIᑎᑎ ᔕᗩOᒪ ⌭ on Jul 29, 2017 13:55:43 GMT -5
One of the Erin's (I forget which one) said the clans have been around since the 1970's....which makes absolutely no sense what so ever. I never trust the wiki. It's just full of LIES! -3- And how can 24 years have had like 15+ leaders for each clan before Rusty even got there? SkyClan was said to have been around for MANY generations, like the rest of the Clans, back when they were being first kicked out. We have ThunderClan: Thunderstar, Owlstar, Pinestar, Sunstar, Whitestar, Finchstar, Lionstar, Vinestar, Morningstar, Redstar, Oakstar, Doestar, Bluestar, Firestar, Bramblestar RiverClan: Riverstar Emberstar Darkstar Troutstar Reedstar Ivystar Talonstar Birchstar Volestar Hailstar Crookedstar Leopardstar Mistystar ShadowClan: Shadowstar Hollystar Brindlestar Lilystar Blizzardstar Snowstar Flowerstar Ripplestar Yellowstar Dawnstar Houndstar Cedarstar Raggedstar Brokenstar Nightstar Tigerstar Blackstar Rowanstar WindClan: Windstar Gorsestar Duststar Stonestar Hazelstar Featherstar Rabbitstar Dovestar Fallowstar Birchstar Swiftstar Heatherstar Tallstar Onestar, Harestar SkyClan: Skystar Birchstar Beechstar Maplestar Dewstar Hawkstar Robinstar Rowanstar Darkstar Fennelstar Flystar Cloudstar Buzzardstar Spiderstar Leafstar And these are just the ones talked about from warrior codes stuff and storyline. I do believe there is at least 5 more leaders for each clan. and they can live 10-20 years each! Provided that they don't do anything with their lives or just constantly lose them like Pinestar and Sunstar seemed to do. Unless all of these leaders lived a couple years and every warrior lived on average 3-5 years instead of possibly 12, this wouldn't make much sense. So we have to take the average lifetime of each leader and times it by each generation. But then we need to take into context the Tribe of Rushing Water (since they are technically part of the clans, noted in DOTC and Jayfeathers flashbacks). The ToRW only had one leader, Half Moon (aka Stoneteller) before the clan grew too big to sustain itself on the mountain. Half Moon was an elder by the time DOTC rolled around, but we don't know how old she was (since elders are considered any warrior 6 years or older around). So we cant add an exact amount but an average until we know her age. But then we need to take into context the group of cats beside the lake BEFORE the clans were formed. They've clearly been around for a while, they have a system (somewhat) of how to do things. But since we don't have a family tree for the group, and we know barely anything about them, we can't make a definitive guess. We'll just need to estimate. Since these cats weren't as advanced with medicine, and didn't have the kind of system the current clans have where they helped each other much more (and didn't send their children into tunnels) we can say cats died more often of sickness, starvation, etc than now. So we'll cut the average lifespan of a warrior now in half since now cats get much more help, medicine, don't possibly die to become a sharpclaw, and have more stable shelters. So every cat would live about 3 years and would be lucky to live past that. So mabye they've been around for about 30-40 years? That's enough time for them to make a weak system about. So going back to the cats, so far we have about 36 years. That's the time combined by the ToRW and the lake cats. So let's list off every leader and how long they lived to find an average (Note: I will be using the leaders who's official ages on death we've gotten.) TC: Bluestar - 6.5 Yrs Firestar - 8 yrs RC: Leopardstar - 10.25 yrs Crookedstar - 6.25 yrs SC: Tigerstar - 5.66 yrs Brokenstar - 3.9 yrs Blackstar - 10 yrs (An average I made since he was born before ITW and has been leader since TDH, I'd actually like it if I got some help with averaging his age) WC: Tallstar - 10 yrs (seriously he's the only one we got an age for) I don't feel like doing math right now, so if someone wants to they can but let's just say the average leader lives 7 years in TC, 8 in RC, 6-7 for SC (which makes sense considering they have the most leaders), and 8 for WC (Cause I doubt every leader lives 10). (Actually I have to stop typing for now, just use this information and see if you guys can come up with an estimate for how long these guys have been around. And keep in mind it needs to fit with this fact: I think anywhere between 70-80 years. We have to keep in mind cars existed because Shaded Moss was killed by one. we honestly can't forget this is we want this theory to work.)
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Post by Lightflame on Jul 30, 2017 13:57:01 GMT -5
The chronology of cars doesn't matter, because Warriors clearly takes place on another planet colonized by humanity. There's too much evidence for anything else to be true.
The forest resembles a place found in the real world, and yet the geography just beyond it is completely different than it is in the real world, and somehow has mountain lions. Thus, we have to assume that the Old Forest was terraformed to resemble the location on Earth that it's based on, but that the surrounding geography was left unchanged.
As well, there are twelve moons in a year. However, a lunar cycle is 29.5 days, so that would mean that a year in Warriors is only 354 days long. That doesn't make any sense, unless the series is set on a planet where year lengths and lunar cycles are slightly different.
Next, where do the cats get their stories about LionClan, LeopardClan, and TigerClan from? They've never been to Africa, but if the series is on another planet, the explanation for it is obvious. Cats were kept near lions, leopards, and tigers on the ship they were taken to this planet on, and they passed down the stories of those animals. This mythology doesn't seem to be around at the beginning of the Clans, but if a ship with new arrivals landed on the planet, cats kept there might have had kits that joined the Clans and knew the stories of those animals.
Rock and Midnight also claim to have existed since the Dawn of Time, and apparently watched the first sunset over the lake together. When you consider the entire history of the Earth, this also doesn't make sense, but it makes complete sense if this is another planet. Rock and Midnight were a cat and badger kept on the first spaceship sent to colonize the planet. When the ship landed, the two managed to escape and ended up at the lake. They were the first animals on the planet to watch a sunrise. This also explains how Midnight learned so many languages. She learned them from the other animals on the colony ship.
There's even some major setup for this that the Erins have given us. Vicky has said that Seekers takes place in the future, when the world has become even more polluted. Because of this pollution, mankind seeks other places where they can thrive, and the first colony ship is sent out, landing on the planet that Warriors takes place on. This is also why Vicky has stated that it would be impossible for the Seekers to find the Clans. Unless four bears were somehow able to steal a spaceship, they could never reach the planet that Warriors takes place on, and even then, the Clans don't exist yet during the time of Seekers.
It's possible that some of the fantasy elements of the series are also because of it taking place on another planet. Perhaps the planet has special properties that preserves the minds of its inhabitants after their deaths. As well, the Moonpool and Moonstone may be able to induce regenerative abilities in cats. Also, if the lake has some special quality to its water, it could explain Heavystep, and the increased longevity of the Clan cats once they reached the lake.
I hope you now understand how clear it is that Warriors takes place on another planet.
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