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Post by Quickkit on Mar 19, 2017 2:59:58 GMT -5
okay, i hate to break it to you but he is not, its not his fault that tiger claw is a bad cat, he was only his mentor! for all we could know the cause of tiger claw bad path was his father leaving! bluekit all the way to bluestar hated him, only because one person who was writing the book for some reason hated him, spoilers about cat deaths this is also the reason he went to darkforest once he died in a pool of blood, he wouldn't have been so harsh on blue fur/bluestar and so emotionally unstable because warrior cat deaths when snow fur died because of blue fur was her fault, blue fur insisted for them to go for a walk even though she needed to look after her kits, then snow fur got run over by a monster (car)
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Post by mymerlincat on Mar 19, 2017 11:40:09 GMT -5
No, he isn't. He acted worse after he died, but that doesn't explain why he ended up there. He didn't break the warrior code, he didn't train in the DF with the intention of using it against his Clan, he's not evil.
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Post by whiteflight on Mar 19, 2017 13:01:07 GMT -5
imo snowfurs death wasn't Bluestar's fault queens sometimes need a break and Bluestar thought she did so they took a walk and the only reason why she died was all because of Shadowclans fault. And Thistleclaw was forcing tigerclaw to do evil things imo, they attacked tiny just because he went into the territory, he was a kit that time but I do blame blue for not stopping it soon. I just find him kind of evil cause he was always mean to Blue and he did some bad things that wouldn't be good for the clan. Plus i don't think he really cared about Snowfur because of Crookedstar's promise he called her soft and weak, same with Whitestorm, he also trained with the dark forest and didn't really care about stuff.
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Post by Solarmyr on Mar 19, 2017 19:22:31 GMT -5
Mean? Yeah. Bad? Nah, not necessarily. Thistleclaw was definitely a mean cat and his morals weren't really the most sound, but I think describing him as bad or evil is a bit of a stretch. A large majority of the stuff he did was for the benefit of his clan and those around him. He just didn't quite show said loyalty in the most ethical way (i.e. through a lot of probably unnecessary bloodshed).
I think the Erins kinda warped him to make him into an "evil" character as the series went on, considering when he was first mentioned he just kind of came off as too overzealous, and by the time the newer books came around he was described as flat out diabolical.
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Post by perfectlypink♥ on Mar 19, 2017 20:00:58 GMT -5
Mean? Yeah. Bad? Nah, not necessarily. Thistleclaw was definitely a mean cat and his morals weren't really the most sound, but I think describing him as bad or evil is a bit of a stretch. A large majority of the stuff he did was for the benefit of his clan and those around him. He just didn't quite show said loyalty in the most ethical way (i.e. through a lot of probably unnecessary bloodshed).
I think the Erins kinda warped him to make him into an "evil" character as the series went on, considering when he was first mentioned he just kind of came off as too overzealous, and by the time the newer books came around he was described as flat out diabolical. I definitely agree. He was a jerk, and he was full of himself, but he wasn't a crazed evil murderer like most people make him out to be. A lot of people think he turned Tigerstar evil, but Goosefeather already knew that Tigerstar was destined to be evil, before he was an apprentice and had Thistleclaw as a mentor.
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Post by Solarmyr on Mar 19, 2017 20:20:18 GMT -5
Mean? Yeah. Bad? Nah, not necessarily. Thistleclaw was definitely a mean cat and his morals weren't really the most sound, but I think describing him as bad or evil is a bit of a stretch. A large majority of the stuff he did was for the benefit of his clan and those around him. He just didn't quite show said loyalty in the most ethical way (i.e. through a lot of probably unnecessary bloodshed).
I think the Erins kinda warped him to make him into an "evil" character as the series went on, considering when he was first mentioned he just kind of came off as too overzealous, and by the time the newer books came around he was described as flat out diabolical. I definitely agree. He was a jerk, and he was full of himself, but he wasn't a crazed evil murderer like most people make him out to be. A lot of people think he turned Tigerstar evil, but Goosefeather already knew that Tigerstar was destined to be evil, before he was an apprentice and had Thistleclaw as a mentor. Absolutely! Thistleclaw probably contributed to Tigerstar's views to some extent, but to point him out as the sole thing that "turned" Tigerstar evil is honestly kinda odd. Although his environment didn't help, Tiger definitely had the potential to be evil all along. Otherwise why else would Goosefeather have had that prophecy about him when Tiger was at such a young age?
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Post by Quickkit on Mar 21, 2017 0:42:17 GMT -5
whiteflight1: he loved her very very much he was just saying that because he was very upset 2: no he asked what tiger paw wanted to de tiger paw said hurt him he siad okay he didn't say kill that kitty pet hsbc 3: so what if he trained with dark forest, so did crooked star and he went to star clan!
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Post by whiteflight on Mar 21, 2017 8:46:56 GMT -5
whiteflight 1: he loved her very very much he was just saying that because he was very upset 2: no he asked what tiger paw wanted to de tiger paw said hurt him he siad okay he didn't say kill that kitty pet hsbc 3: so what if he trained with dark forest, so did crooked star and he went to star clan! Yeah but Crookedstar saw the evil in them and quit, plus for the tigerpaw part i have bad memory so I didn't remember that part. Don't need to yell, also I still think he's kind of bad.
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Post by wheeledwarrior on Mar 27, 2017 11:28:38 GMT -5
I think the problem is that Thistleclaw did not need to be violent or arrogant, yet he chose to anyway. It got to the point was attacking his Clanmates, and forced his apprentice to nearly kill a young cat... He chose to hurt others without justification, and the fact never recovered from that makes him evil.
As for why Tigerstar chose the path he did, there's a number of things. One of which is his father leaving, and looked down upon as disloyal by the rest of the Clan. Another is a lack of a mother and siblings to support him. And the final reason is because of Thistleclaw effectively teaching him that violence and manipulation is the only way to solve problems... So while Thistleclaw alone isn't the reason why Tigerstar turned out the way he did, there's no denying that he had a big hand in it…
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Post by Owlmoon on Apr 1, 2017 9:53:46 GMT -5
I dislike him because I felt like he was really annoying.
But yeah, he was definitely bad. He made his apprentice attack Tiny! Thistleclaw threatened and was pretty selfish.
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Post by Quickkit on Apr 7, 2017 4:22:31 GMT -5
whiteflightokay, I'm not yelling because then i would be doing it in caps 2 what the excuse for 1. that he loved snow fur? or do you finally agree that he loved her, just wondering. also sorry if you think I'm rude i don't know how to put words sometimes but don't claim that someone is yelling from the computer when they don't even have caps lock on, its odd and kinda seems like you wanna get them a bad reputation.
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Post by Quickkit on Apr 7, 2017 4:25:21 GMT -5
okay gez, just read this thing over here and also, did you even read the books or just read or watch videos and posts? because he was not scratching his kit more then just play fighting, I'm not sure you know much about cats but umm yeah they play fight, with claws unsheathed, and don't pretend that they don't, I've been researching cats for 5 years. www.wattpad.com/36086667-warrior-cat-rants-thistleclaw-love
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Post by whiteflight on Apr 7, 2017 6:22:50 GMT -5
whiteflight okay, I'm not yelling because then i would be doing it in caps 2 what the excuse for 1. that he loved snow fur? or do you finally agree that he loved her, just wondering. also sorry if you think I'm rude i don't know how to put words sometimes but don't claim that someone is yelling from the computer when they don't even have caps lock on, its odd and kinda seems like you wanna get them a bad reputation. Sorry thought you were yelling cause of the ! And I still find Thistleclaw bad because we read it from Bluestar's view and most of the scenes he's in he does mostly dangerous and bad stuff imo, plus the way he died also makes him seem even more bad. That's why when I see him in Spottedleaf's book I just feel like the Erin's are just trying to change our mind about him. They say he was bad enough to go to the dark forest but yet he's a good person in that book so atm I'm still in dislike for him, I really don't think anything can change my mind about him being bad.
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Bisexual
Snowfire
Pronouns: She/Her or They/Them
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Post by Snowfire on Apr 21, 2017 14:52:49 GMT -5
In my opinion, yes. He was violent and would have led ThunderClan to destruction in endless wars. That's his problem; he just doesn't know when to quit fighting and have mercy. He wanted to rule the Clans.
He was also an unfit mentor IMO. He taught Tigerpaw such advanced, aggressive moves when he was way to young, and he clearly taught his apprentice that bloodshed is the answer to everything.
He had the potential to be a good cat, but he made his own choice to be evil. I feel like his ambition blinded him from his loyalty and judgment.
EDIT: Sorry if this is necroposting(?), I wasn't paying attention to the date of the last post.. Oops.
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Post by Tas on May 1, 2017 19:57:38 GMT -5
In my opinion, yes. He was violent and would have led ThunderClan to destruction in endless wars. That's his problem; he just doesn't know when to quit fighting and have mercy. He wanted to rule the Clans. He was also an unfit mentor IMO. He taught Tigerpaw such advanced, aggressive moves when he was way to young, and he clearly taught his apprentice that bloodshed is the answer to everything. He had the potential to be a good cat, but he made his own choice to be evil. I feel like his ambition blinded him from his loyalty and judgment. EDIT: Sorry if this is necroposting(?), I wasn't paying attention to the date of the last post.. Oops. Okay, here we go. He was not evil. He was a bad cat with unclear morals and poor judgement. He was a poor mentor and possible ****phile, but he was not in any way "evil" by Warriors standards. I agree with the majority of what you said. He was a great and loyal warrior and wanted nothing more than to lead and fight for his clan. You can't blame him for his ambition. What you can blame him for is his actions with Spottedleaf, but that's another thread and another time. Thistleclaw was a terrible mentor, teaching Tigerpaw the wrong things and raising him to follow in his (bloody) footsteps. But there will always be violent cats, and Thistleclaw was one of them. He was a good father to Whitestorm and truly wanted what (he thought) was best for his clan.
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Bisexual
Snowfire
Pronouns: She/Her or They/Them
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Post by Snowfire on May 1, 2017 22:50:48 GMT -5
In my opinion, yes. He was violent and would have led ThunderClan to destruction in endless wars. That's his problem; he just doesn't know when to quit fighting and have mercy. He wanted to rule the Clans. He was also an unfit mentor IMO. He taught Tigerpaw such advanced, aggressive moves when he was way to young, and he clearly taught his apprentice that bloodshed is the answer to everything. He had the potential to be a good cat, but he made his own choice to be evil. I feel like his ambition blinded him from his loyalty and judgment. EDIT: Sorry if this is necroposting(?), I wasn't paying attention to the date of the last post.. Oops. Okay, here we go. He was not evil. He was a bad cat with unclear morals and poor judgement. He was a poor mentor and possible ****phile, but he was not in any way "evil" by Warriors standards. I agree with the majority of what you said. He was a great and loyal warrior and wanted nothing more than to lead and fight for his clan. You can't blame him for his ambition. What you can blame him for is his actions with Spottedleaf, but that's another thread and another time. Thistleclaw was a terrible mentor, teaching Tigerpaw the wrong things and raising him to follow in his (bloody) footsteps. But there will always be violent cats, and Thistleclaw was one of them. He was a good father to Whitestorm and truly wanted what (he thought) was best for his clan. I understand where you're getting at, but Thistle being evil seems to be more opinion than fact; many think he was, many think he wasn't. Many people just interpret him diffrrently. But I think fatherhood over Whitestorm is debatable. Is it really healthy for Whitekit to have been hogged by Thistle like that in BP? He threatened Whitekit's own aunt to stay away from him. And with the battle moves that his father taught him at such a young age, he could've gotten hurt. I understand that Thistle may have thought he was right in his own way, such as simply teaching his kit to defend himself, but keeping him away from other kin is something that I feel could affect him. I feel that Thistle had good intentions at first, but after Snowfur's death, his judgement was clouded and he became sorta reckless. He negatively affected many cats: Tigerpaw, Scourge, arguably Bluefur, and perhaps even Whitrestorm, if he continued raising his son in a road to violence. Even if his actions may not have been entirely his fault, he still made his own choices that led him to The dark forest. That's just how I interpret Thistleclaw. Kinda a lot of mixed feelings that I'm not the best at explaining but.. I tried.
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Post by Tas on May 2, 2017 16:44:20 GMT -5
Snowfire Most of Thistleclaw's "hogging" came from his stubborn dislike and jealousy of Bluefur. He wanted to be leader, and she took that away from him. He blamed Bluefur for Snowfur's death, and didn't want to endanger his only real kin left - something that's totally understandable. His judgement in this matter was extremely clouded, and he made the wrong decision about it. Bluefur and Thistleclaw were polar opposites, which is the main reason why they argued so much. As for being too rough with Whitekit, Thistleclaw was a naturally violent cat and (complicated) fighting moves were the only real way he knew how to train him. I'm not in any way trying to defend Thistleclaw. It may seem that way; all I'm doing is putting across my opinion that (as I said in a previous post) while he made unforgivable decisions and was a "bad" cat, I don't define him "evil" as some others do.
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Post by Thunderlake on May 12, 2017 23:09:42 GMT -5
two words spottedleafs heart
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Post by piperthehyena on May 13, 2017 13:03:38 GMT -5
two words spottedleafs heart *nods* YEUCK! Yes I know they're cats, but the Erins have said that they view them more like humans than cats. So This still stands. If they viewed them more like cats, then it wouldn't so much (and she-cats wouldn't have particular mates either)
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2017 13:43:07 GMT -5
He was a violent jerk. He got a lot worse after his death, though.
....there is the whole matter of Spottedleaf's Heart, however.
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Post by tiger beetle on May 14, 2017 9:00:43 GMT -5
even disregarding SH, he had already been shown (in Crookedstar's Promise) to be gladly training in the DF knowing that the cats there were evil (if I remember correctly he's training with Silverhawk and laughs at Crookedpaw for thinking it's StarClan), so even if he didn't do anything evil in life, he sure didn't have any problems with hanging out with evil cats
enjoying battle and being a bully to his Clanmates probably wouldn't quite qualify on his own, but -SH shows him as a creep -in BP, his disdain for Bluestar extended to intentionally messing up her hunting, etc.: he was okay with hurting the Clan for his rivalry -I know the Erins say Tigerstar would have been evil no matter what but I just can't believe Thistleclaw didn't influence him, at least in terms of method -he willingly trained in the DF knowing it was evil -he often tried to start battles with RiverClan patrols, which on its own doesn't scream DF to me but also doesn't help his case -he was…pretty bad with Whitestorm after Snowfur's death
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 18:26:46 GMT -5
Spottedleaf's Heart (I'm pretty sure I remember reading this) was written to justify or at least explore why he ended up in the Dark Forest when he died. In some ways it both failed and succeeded. Problem was that we have no clue whether what he had done is frowned upon in the Warriors universe since no other cat seemed to notice or care.
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Post by ⌭ ᑕᖇᑌIᑎᑎ ᔕᗩOᒪ ⌭ on May 16, 2017 14:33:13 GMT -5
(Lil late to the party but whatevs) So let's talk generally, basically a time progression of Thistleclaw within the books. Ok so, at first Thistleclaw was not an evil cat. He was more of a cat with an immense amount of pent up rage that got worse as time went on and he lost more people. Yes, I know, it sounds corny and zen, but it's really true. This was in Bluestars propechy, when we had this point of view of him. A cat that loved Snowfur and his son Whitekit, but grew mad as he lost his littermates, mate, and had his child taken away. While he wasn't a good cat morally he is not evil. Especillay since we've seen worse cats than him. Now jump over to Crookedstars promise, where he's training in the Dark Forest, this is a weird plot line...as it is there are a lot of inconsistencies within the Warrior Cats plot line that mess things up a lot. This is one of them. His personality doesn't even match, it seems more like the plots there to make him see more evil? It gets worse in Spottedleafs Heart, which, I wish didn't exist with all my heart I'll tell you that. Spottedleafs Heart shows Spottedpaw, only she and Thistleclaw fall in love with each other despite her being a medicine cat apprentice? While the first part doesn't matter (since that code has been broken more than my pencils lead) the second APPRENTICE part does. For sure. Once again, since this is not mentioned ever again in the series, and it seems more like it was thrown in there, and Thistleclaw is once again completely out of character, it's a contradicting plot line that's there to make Thistleclaw look bad. But now since both those exist...and his character has been completely ruined, yes he is a bad cat. It doesn't help that we have no discernible reason for why cats go to the Dark Forest, whether it's "rage from events during your life" or "being evil" or "choosing to", and somehow he's there because he...chose to? What happened to going back to being with Snowfur...? Never mind.. Personally I have my own timeline for what did and didn't happen based on little hints in the series (and because if everything were canon in the series everything would be messed up), so if you were going to ask me from that perspective than no. I'll stop here since this rants getting kind of long.
-DandyLilNerd-
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Post by Quickkit on May 20, 2017 9:54:43 GMT -5
@whightflight
Look how EVIL he is, protecting the territory from a riverclan cat, Gave thunderclan one of the best warriors (whitestorm) cared for his dead sister and clan, SO EVIL AM I RIGHT?>!>!!!?!>>!11111
and see how inosant bluefur is!?!!?1111/;. Broke the warrior code, didn;t respect her clan for half the book, hated a kit for being a playful kit, out of bluestars prophacy she HATED starclan because of her desisons that impacted her, didn;t make and alprenaces warriors for no reason i could go on but eh, im sure ur getting bored by now.
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Post by Quickkit on May 20, 2017 9:57:07 GMT -5
honestly bluestars blabbering about how 'bad' her life is, really is annoying
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Post by Quickkit on May 20, 2017 10:01:06 GMT -5
i compleately agree and think the erins should stop tring to make him seem evil#
(i dont think i am gonna read sottedleafs heart tbh it just seem s boring and another book about how bad and weird thistle claw is, AKA what half of bluestars prophacy was about)
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Post by Quickkit on May 20, 2017 10:02:45 GMT -5
the weird thing is, is that if u say this then u obviously are in the middle of the book or haven't read it yet.
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Post by Quickkit on May 20, 2017 10:05:46 GMT -5
no he didn't.... he aksed what tigerpaw wanted to do and he said 'teach him a lesson' and thistleclaw said 'so be it then' he gave all the optaion to tigerpaw.
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