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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2017 15:47:40 GMT -5
As I am having the regular warriors debates on the Crowfeather thread I began to wonder why Leafpool still loves Crowfeather.
Crowfeather made it clear that he wanted nothing to do with her and said that she meant nothing to him. He even said that choosing her own Clan wasn't enough when they had that fight of Nightcloud dragging him away from her. It's selfish to me, and he already took Nightcloud as a mate.
Leafpool just needs to move on. He's probably still crushing on Feathertail and I don't understand what Leafpool sees in him. She was disgusted with him when he was watching his sons fight without helping and even helped at him, and Crowfeather proved that he was selfish when he said that her love for him wasn't enough.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2017 16:11:38 GMT -5
I like Leafpool, but I agree that it's quite odd that she refused to move on from him. Especially since Crowfeather became mates with someone else right after. I can understand Leafpool regaining some hope that Crowfeather still loved her after their encounter with Nightcloud and Breezepelt, but up until then Crowfeather showed her nothing but scorn or lack of interest.
I don't really blame Leafpool for still being in love with the past Crowfeather- the one who was willing to leave his clan for her. So I don't really have any problem if she secretly longed for that past life once and a while. Just as Cinderpelt held on to her crush for Firestar, and we saw just how sensitive the subject was for her even years later when she was dealing with Leafpool. But Leafpool seemed to be a lot more uncomfortable and nervous around Crowfeather, while Cinderpelt was able to eventually still hold a strong professional friendship around Firestar and even become close friends with Sandstorm.
Sure, it was different in the fact that Firestar and Sandstorm had a great relationship, and so Cinderpelt probably never worried about them and was happy as long as Firestar was happy, while Crowfeather and Nightcloud were only together for gain and argued a lot, so it probably was harder for Leafpool to let go of worrying for Crowfeather, but still, what's done was done and as long as Leafpool showed interest in Crowfeather after they split up she not only harmed her career but ThunderClan as a whole. We also have the fact that Cinderpelt's situation was always a secret and nothing went further than a crush, and so Cinderpelt had the luxury of not having to distance herself too much from Firestar- while on the other hand CrowxLeaf was known throughout ThunderClan and WindClan and possibly the other clans as well, and so Leafpool had to take extra precautions, much more than Cinderpelt had to. Precautions that Leafpool didn't really act out.
So I do understand her possible motive for still hanging onto Crowfeather, I still think she should have done more to break things off. Not only because Crowfeather had enough on his plate, but because of how serious her case was.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jan 10, 2017 17:15:24 GMT -5
Hence the Erins and their bad writing.
If it were up to me, Leaf and Night would become girlfriends and Crowfeather would die in a ditch, while the Three and Breezepelt got along.
On a more serious note, I agree with you there, I feel like the Erins only made Leaf x Crow with the intention of kits, like Spider x Daisy. And it weirds me out that even after how horribly Crowfeather treated her, their kits, his actual current mate, his other son, and how he views ThunderClan, not to mention STILL regards them like insects if you go by what he said about Leafpool's father in BrS, and yet she STILL has feelings for him??? Horrid taste.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2017 3:20:03 GMT -5
Hence the Erins and their bad writing. If it were up to me, Leaf and Night would become girlfriends and Crowfeather would die in a ditch, while the Three and Breezepelt got along. On a more serious note, I agree with you there, I feel like the Erins only made Leaf x Crow with the intention of kits, like Spider x Daisy. And it weirds me out that even after how horribly Crowfeather treated her, their kits, his actual current mate, his other son, and how he views ThunderClan, not to mention STILL regards them like insects if you go by what he said about Leafpool's father in BrS, and yet she STILL has feelings for him??? Horrid taste. What did Crowfeather say? I can't remember. I thought Leaf and Crow made up in TLH during the Great Battle.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2017 6:40:23 GMT -5
☁︎ ooc ☁︎ "hubba hubba is that a cat of the opposite gender in another can" ☁︎ roleplay ☁︎
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jan 11, 2017 12:02:16 GMT -5
Hence the Erins and their bad writing. If it were up to me, Leaf and Night would become girlfriends and Crowfeather would die in a ditch, while the Three and Breezepelt got along. On a more serious note, I agree with you there, I feel like the Erins only made Leaf x Crow with the intention of kits, like Spider x Daisy. And it weirds me out that even after how horribly Crowfeather treated her, their kits, his actual current mate, his other son, and how he views ThunderClan, not to mention STILL regards them like insects if you go by what he said about Leafpool's father in BrS, and yet she STILL has feelings for him??? Horrid taste. What did Crowfeather say? I can't remember. I thought Leaf and Crow made up in TLH during the Great Battle. In BrS, just because Bramblestar had kittypets helping out on the patrol because of the flood, Crowfeather mocked them, saying they must still miss Firestar. They're a bunch of hyprocrites too considering they were being greedy about the drinking water then Squirrelflight sent them running back over the border with their tails between their legs after catching them tresspassing.
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Post by kinkajou on Jan 11, 2017 14:26:59 GMT -5
I'm still wondering why she ever loved him in the first place
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Post by wheeledwarrior on Jan 11, 2017 14:52:36 GMT -5
I'd chalk it up to bad writing, or a flaw in her character. Crowfeather even said that her heart lead her home, yet she still refused to move on with him. Perhaps that refusals to move on can be seen as a character flaw, especially with her sister having kits and Leafpool that because of her duties, she can't ever have any more interactions with a mate… Part of me wonders if she would've eventually accepted becoming a warrior if it meant she could find love and happiness again…
Then again, I think that the only reason that pairing was made was so the Three could be "special"… And it didn't even amount to as much as it could have, considering one of them wasn't… Not to mention the pairing itself was very rushed, and caused all sorts of problems along the way…
If it were me, Feathertail would have survived, Stormfur would have been the cat in the Tribe prophecy, and Feathertail and Crowfeather would have become mates… That relationship was much better developed, even with the age difference…
In fact, I read a fan fiction where that's exactly what happened, and Feathertail joined Windclan. She and Crowfeather (Crowstorm in this fan fiction) had kits together, they became the Three, and the prophecy was delivered to Windclan and Graystripe (he lets Crowstorm know at a Gathering), rather than Thunderclan and Firestar.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2017 15:12:09 GMT -5
I'd chalk it up to bad writing, or a flaw in her character. Crowfeather even said that her heart lead her home, yet she still refused to move on with him. Perhaps that refusals to move on can be seen as a character flaw, especially with her sister having kits and Leafpool that because of her duties, she can't ever have any more interactions with a mate… Part of me wonders if she would've eventually accepted becoming a warrior if it meant she could find love and happiness again… Then again, I think that the only reason that pairing was made was so the Three could be "special"… And it didn't even amount to as much as it could have, considering one of them wasn't… Not to mention the pairing itself was very rushed, and caused all sorts of problems along the way… If it were me, Feathertail would have survived, Stormfur would have been the cat in the Tribe prophecy, and Feathertail and Crowfeather would have become mates… That relationship was much better developed, even with the age difference… In fact, I read a fan fiction where that's exactly what happened, and Feathertail joined Windclan. She and Crowfeather (Crowstorm in this fan fiction) had kits together, they became the Three, and the prophecy was delivered to Windclan and Graystripe (he lets Crowstorm know at a Gathering), rather than Thunderclan and Firestar. Leafpool being the mother of the Three wouldn't have made any difference. Crow X Leaf clearly happened for drama filler. The Three were important so they were always going to be born. Feathertail or some other she-cat would have been the mother of the Three.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jan 11, 2017 22:26:35 GMT -5
If Crow X Feather happpened instead, can I nominate Storm x Squirrel too?? Cause I'd like Storm not ending up with one of the cats that held him hostage who also has zero personality.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2017 19:44:22 GMT -5
I kind of shipped Bramble x Feather but that would NEVER happen lol.
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Post by Owlmoon on Jan 12, 2017 20:10:43 GMT -5
Why does Leafpool still have feelings? Get over it and move on.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jan 12, 2017 22:29:21 GMT -5
Bramble x Feather and Storm x Squirrel could have happened if Silverstream had lived and moved to ThunderClan like she was originally debating on doing, UGHHH. All that potential gone, thanks Erins.
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Post by wheeledwarrior on Jan 12, 2017 23:56:43 GMT -5
Bramble x Feather and Storm x Squirrel could have happened if Silverstream had lived and moved to ThunderClan like she was originally debating on doing, UGHHH. All that potential gone, thanks Erins. True, but there's no guarantee she would've actually gone if she had lived... If I remember correctly, she had a lot of friends in her own Clan, and was close to her father... She would've had to leave them all… Not to mention how devastated Crookedstar would have been over losing his only remaining family… It might have also ended up in a situation similar to what happened to Graystripe (where he switched Clans, but couldn't really adapt and otherwise felt like he couldn't belong)… And there's no telling what would've happened with Bluestar’s insanity and Tigerstar’s reign… In fact, most fanfics where she does survive don't depict her living through those things…
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jan 13, 2017 2:34:57 GMT -5
Bramble x Feather and Storm x Squirrel could have happened if Silverstream had lived and moved to ThunderClan like she was originally debating on doing, UGHHH. All that potential gone, thanks Erins. True, but there's no guarantee she would've actually gone if she had lived... If I remember correctly, she had a lot of friends in her own Clan, and was close to her father... She would've had to leave them all… Not to mention how devastated Crookedstar would have been over losing his only remaining family… It might have also ended up in a situation similar to what happened to Graystripe (where he switched Clans, but couldn't really adapt and otherwise felt like he couldn't belong)… And there's no telling what would've happened with Bluestar’s insanity and Tigerstar’s reign… In fact, most fanfics where she does survive don't depict her living through those things… True, but there's more to her character than that. I think a lot of people forget the fact that Silverstream, despite how much screen time she actually got, was a cat that thought outside the system. She believed that the rules should change, in a way that would not only aide her but others that felt the same. She thought it was silly that she wasn't allowed to love a cat from another clan, or that she couldn't be with them. Sure I ridicule Leafpool for being a brat over something similar but it's different because Silverstream wasn't actually running away from this problem. She didn't care if people knew Graystripe was the father of her kits, or vice versa, she only cared that he knew most important of all, and that he could be a proud mate and father. She also talked about how she had a love for the river, but debated that she'd most likely love Graystripe more than that. Indicating that her possibly moving to ThunderClan was indeed on the table. Another thing, Silverstream was a free-spirited cat, what some people called brattish, I called spunky. Her father, and this is no secret, spoiled her, to no ends, and we find out why is because of Mapleshade's curse and his hard enough life. Losing his brother, mother, father, leader, mate, and other kits, etc. Of course his response is to coddle Silverstream, similar to Nightcloud being a helicopter parent. Although not intentional, neither Nightcloud, nor Crookedstar gave their offspring a real chance to prove themselves. Silverstream was a cat that was open to change, and was willing to take change if it meant a better choice ending on the pro side. She was rebellious to her father as well, although she cared for him a lot, she didn't really seem to take his "coddling" as a pro, especially after meeting Graystripe. We see her nonchalantly sway off her father's persistent arguments in the CP manga, to which she constantly insisted on defending Graystripe. With that being said...Silverstream as a character did most likely favor the idea of going to ThunderClan to be with the father of her kits. But for some reason the Erins did the opposite, and killed her, so Graystripe went to RiverClan instead?? Yeah weird. But anyways...the mere fact that this exists; " It is hard to know if Silverstream would have been happy to live in ThunderClan, closed in beneath trees and out of sight and sound of her beloved river. But if love could give her courage to break the warrior code, it might have given her a chance of happiness with Graystripe." imo tells me that she'd most likely be willing for more change if it meant she and Graystripe could be happy together. With that being said...Stormfur didn't pursue Squirrelflight only because he was from a different clan. And Feather x Crow only became a thing because Feather went on the journey with Stormfur, so if she was born in ThunderClan, Stormfur wouldn't have been the chosen one, and she wouldn't have gone. And despite Storm x Squirrel being prophecy mates?? they easily have a fallout over the three, and for literally the longest time. To the point where even Bramble is thinking about moving on with a cat like Jessy, ugh.
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Post by Brambleshadow on Jan 15, 2017 1:46:06 GMT -5
I think they both never moved on. Crowfeather may've taken a mate but he obviously didn't care for either. Leafpool might've given him up but she didn't stop feeling. And over time the feelings got all gross an twisted into what we have now. So they're all messed up versions of each other and poisoned inside but still have the uhealthy obsessive feelings. I agree. I always thought that Crowfeather took Nightcloud as his mate to prove his loyalty to WindClan (didn't one of the Erins say this was the case at one point in an interview?) and said what he did at the Gathering in Sunrise to save face. There's clearly still UST between Leafpool and Crowfeather in The Sight (Jaypaw notes the tension between them is like lightning), and they did reconcile in TLH after Hollyleaf's death. Though if Leafpool had told Crowfeather she was expecting his kits (like, as soon as she found out and before he'd had Breezekit with Nightcloud) then all of the later drama in PoT and OotS would have been avoided.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jan 15, 2017 16:57:23 GMT -5
I think they both never moved on. Crowfeather may've taken a mate but he obviously didn't care for either. Leafpool might've given him up but she didn't stop feeling. And over time the feelings got all gross an twisted into what we have now. So they're all messed up versions of each other and poisoned inside but still have the uhealthy obsessive feelings. I agree. I always thought that Crowfeather took Nightcloud as his mate to prove his loyalty to WindClan (didn't one of the Erins say this was the case at one point in an interview?) and said what he did at the Gathering in Sunrise to save face. There's clearly still UST between Leafpool and Crowfeather in The Sight (Jaypaw notes the tension between them is like lightning), and they did reconcile in TLH after Hollyleaf's death. Though if Leafpool had told Crowfeather she was expecting his kits (like, as soon as she found out and before he'd had Breezekit with Nightcloud) then all of the later drama in PoT and OotS would have been avoided.There's actually a short story were I think Leafpool was planning to tell him? But then she saw him with Nightcloud, and got jealous, and also hurt over Crowfeather's words in that situation? Either way, Breezepelt is not much younger than the three, meaning by the time Leafpool apparently found out she was preg, Nightcloud was most likely also already carrying. Even if Crowfeather knew, imo I don't think much will change, just his attempted save face at the gathering.
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Post by Brambleshadow on Jan 15, 2017 17:03:36 GMT -5
I agree. I always thought that Crowfeather took Nightcloud as his mate to prove his loyalty to WindClan (didn't one of the Erins say this was the case at one point in an interview?) and said what he did at the Gathering in Sunrise to save face. There's clearly still UST between Leafpool and Crowfeather in The Sight (Jaypaw notes the tension between them is like lightning), and they did reconcile in TLH after Hollyleaf's death. Though if Leafpool had told Crowfeather she was expecting his kits (like, as soon as she found out and before he'd had Breezekit with Nightcloud) then all of the later drama in PoT and OotS would have been avoided.There's actually a short story were I think Leafpool was planning to tell him? But then she saw him with Nightcloud, and got jealous, and also hurt over Crowfeather's words in that situation? Either way, Breezepelt is not much younger than the three, meaning by the time Leafpool apparently found out she was preg, Nightcloud was most likely also already carrying. Even if Crowfeather knew, imo I don't think much will change, just his attempted save face at the gathering. True. And ironically enough, he shows favoritism toward Lionpaw in Outcast (and I think towards Hollypaw and Jaypaw at other points from The Sight to Outcast?) even without knowing Lionpaw, Jaypaw, and Hollypaw are his kits out of Leafpool.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jan 15, 2017 17:07:11 GMT -5
There's actually a short story were I think Leafpool was planning to tell him? But then she saw him with Nightcloud, and got jealous, and also hurt over Crowfeather's words in that situation? Either way, Breezepelt is not much younger than the three, meaning by the time Leafpool apparently found out she was preg, Nightcloud was most likely also already carrying. Even if Crowfeather knew, imo I don't think much will change, just his attempted save face at the gathering. True. And ironically enough, he shows favoritism toward Lionpaw in Outcast (and I think towards Hollypaw and Jaypaw at other points from The Sight to Outcast?) even without knowing Lionpaw, Jaypaw, and Hollypaw are his kits out of Leafpool. True, which is rather ironic? I guess the Erins wanted to foreshadow, but all it did was give Breezepelt more reasons to hate the father that never wanted him lol.
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Post by Brambleshadow on Jan 15, 2017 17:11:24 GMT -5
True. And ironically enough, he shows favoritism toward Lionpaw in Outcast (and I think towards Hollypaw and Jaypaw at other points from The Sight to Outcast?) even without knowing Lionpaw, Jaypaw, and Hollypaw are his kits out of Leafpool. True, which is rather ironic? I guess the Erins wanted to foreshadow, but all it did was give Breezepelt more reasons to hate the father that never wanted him lol. Yup. Breezepelt has tons of daddy issues—and let's just leave it at that.
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